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Topic: Jim Shooter: The Origin of the Dark Phoenix Saga Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Troy Nunis
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posted: 27 June 2011 at 7:05am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

i would say there was a Rise and Fall to Jim Shooter as EiC - a new golden era then torn down by an unneededly heavy hand - whereas there were no high points of Quesada at all, just varying rates of decent.
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Don Zomberg
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Posted: 27 June 2011 at 7:07am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Secret Wars...well written

I was thirteen when that piece of turd came out, and bought it all the way up until the last issue. Couldn't have cared less how it turned out.

Sometimes I wonder if a thirteen year old wrote the damn thing.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 27 June 2011 at 7:09am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

How did it develop that Marvel had an EIC and DC didn't?

••

It's just differences in nomenclature.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 27 June 2011 at 7:14am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

i would say there was a Rise and Fall to Jim Shooter as EiC - a new golden era then torn down by an unneededly heavy hand - whereas there were no high points of Quesada at all, just varying rates of decent.

••

When Shooter came to power at Marvel, the company was very much a stumbling giant. It needed a steady hand and a clear vision to get it back on the road, back on course. Shooter had both -- tho he was not terribly good at expressing the latter. Mostly, his way of telling us we were doing something right was when he started telling us we were doing something else wrong. To make matters worse, Shooter remained in the job long after his particular skill set was no longer needed. As I said at the time, an "ideal" situation would have been for Shooter and Dick Giordano (then EiC at DC) to swap jobs every five years or so.

Quesada came into the job it was completely subservient to Marketing, virtually a figurehead position. Also, we were deep into the realm of Diminished Expectations, so it was no longer necessary to be truly successful in order to APPEAR to be successful.

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Tony Midyett
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Posted: 27 June 2011 at 8:27am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

He'd tried to do it while I was still on the book, but I had resisted -- and that was taking X-MEN further and further away from being a "specialist" book. This was the time when "mutant" became a pretty much meaningless term in the Marvel Universe.
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JB, are you talking about the way Claremont started doing more and more X-Babies/Asgard Wars/mystical types of stories, rather than "hounded and hated by the humanity they've sworn to protect" types of stories?  If so, I agree.  It seemed that every three months one or more of the lead characters would get stripped down to his or her framework and re-built from scratch, with a new costume, new outlook, new powers, etc.  It got old really fast.  It was like visiting one alternate Earth after another, month after month, something that he did literally with the Excalibur series.
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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 27 June 2011 at 8:56am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Quesada came into the job it was completely subservient to Marketing, virtually a figurehead position. Also, we were deep into the realm of Diminished Expectations, so it was no longer necessary to be truly successful in order to APPEAR to be successful.

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Which pretty much explains why the short term sales boosts due to a constant stream of sales gimmicks often directed mainly at the gullible mainstream news media and speculators among civilians. What's even sadder is that many fans wrongly credit Quesada with either "saving" or "bringing" Marvel out of bankruptcy. Then there are those Marvel editors and creators who go online to tell people that sales of the books are doing "great" by the standards of the current market. And don't get me started on those popular Marvel creators who deny that their low selling comic was canceled due to low sales, but instead was canceled because they either wanted to end the book early or because they didn't want to continue the book without the books original artist.

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Michael Todd
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Posted: 27 June 2011 at 9:14am | IP Logged | 7 post reply


 QUOTE:
was canceled because they either wanted to end the book early or because they didn't want to continue the book without the books original artist.

Yeah!  That's the ticket!

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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 27 June 2011 at 10:10am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Hey, has anybody bothered to do the math on my vast earnings at Shooter's Marvel, yet? I did a real quick and dirty calculation, and it looks like each of my titles would have had to have been selling around a million units a month to accumulate the $10mil he claims.
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 27 June 2011 at 11:30am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

 Don Zomberg wrote:
...

Secret Wars...well written

I was thirteen when that piece of turd came out, and bought it all the way up until the last issue. Couldn't have cared less how it turned out.

Sometimes I wonder if a thirteen year old wrote the damn thing.

The irony is that Shooter was writing better stories, himself, as a thirteen-year-old, and professionally, on "The Legion of Super-Heroes."

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Paulo Pereira
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Posted: 27 June 2011 at 3:54pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I don't think the idea of SECRET WARS itself was bad; it was the execution that wanted.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 27 June 2011 at 4:01pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I don't think the idea of SECRET WARS itself was bad; it was the execution that wanted.

••

The IDEA of SECRET WARS was a comicbook to sell toys. It went awry when Certain People decided it was Something Else.

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Stéphane Garrelie
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Posted: 27 June 2011 at 4:03pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

hmm-hmm.

And yet, i find nothing wrong in making something out of it.

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