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Trevor Giberson
Byrne Robotics Chronology
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 1888
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| Posted: 31 August 2011 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | 1
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JT Molloy wrote:
| I'm a bit younger though. Still in my 20's. I STARTED when Jason was killed! There were rough times in comic books from any given point in history, but I feel like almost everything made after 2001 (when Quesada took over Marvel and fanboy-news-websites started up) is geared with fanboys in mind. |
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Haha, I think I've felt that way since before you started reading comics! I don't know how anyone became a superhero comics fan in the '90s, or how anyone who was a comics fan managed to stick around.
But I understand where you are coming from. Where you are now is where I was in 1988. :)
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JT Molloy
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Posts: 2092
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| Posted: 31 August 2011 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 2
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Nope! Not one bit. Maybe you got bored or just didn't like the kind of stories going on back then. That's not why I don't like newer stuff. It goes deeped than that. It's not about the stories being told within the confines of the characters, it's about HOW they're being told.
Take Carnage for instance. A lot of older fans HATE the character, but he was introduced in a single code approved issue with a mystery, a fight, side plots and character development. The character is loved by a lot of (former) fans of my generation. THAT's the kind of divide that used to occur. "Hey, this kid's stuff is stupid". It's natural. It happens.
Vastly different from what I'm bitter about.
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Trevor Giberson
Byrne Robotics Chronology
Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 31 August 2011 at 1:38pm | IP Logged | 3
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Matt Reed wrote:
I know this was directed at JT, but I have to comment. "Hated and feared" are the X-Men. It isn't the JLA. Never has been unless it's an Elseworlds story. Sorry, but although I can deal with apprehension from the civilian population regarding Batman, I can't with Superman and Wonder Woman. To me, it reads like DC saying "hated and feared" sells with Marvel, so let's change our flagship title to pull in some of those sales which, of course, totally disregards what the majority of DCU heroes have represented to the civilian population at large. |
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So far, only Batman is feared, and that may just be by the corrupt Gotham police force, "five years ago". Green Lantern referred to conflicts with the Air Force in the same era, but we don't anything else about that yet.
You illustrate my point, though. We have preconceived notions about who these characters are. We're passionate about it, too. Do you know how much I hated JLI-era Bwahahahaha Blue Beetle? How many angry letters did DC and JB get over the changes to Superman in 1987?
QUOTE:
| That, and what I'm reading about yet another series where it'll take four, six or eight issues to pull together the core group (read: decompressed), has me once again saying "here's the new s*!t, same as the old s*!t". |
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Decompressed storytelling probably won't be going anywhere, I'm afraid. I think it is here for good. It is the most troubling aspect to me, though. Decompressed storytelling works great for an inexpensive, 200+ page anthology format, but for a $3 four-minute read? That price point is way too high.
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Adam Hutchinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4502
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| Posted: 31 August 2011 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | 4
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QUOTE:
| I won't praise or condemn DC based on just one title. |
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Agreed
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JT Molloy
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
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| Posted: 31 August 2011 at 1:41pm | IP Logged | 5
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I won't praise or condemn DC based on just one title.
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Despite it being their flagship title and knowing, or having the ability to know, about the rest of the titles from solicits?
Why do some people insist that you have to read something, sometimes ALL of it, which these days means spending $24 to hopefully even read the first "ARC" before you can just say this sucks.
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Jason Larouse
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 May 2011
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| Posted: 31 August 2011 at 1:43pm | IP Logged | 6
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So far, only Batman is feared, and that may just be by the corrupt Gotham police force, "five years ago". Green Lantern referred to conflicts with the Air Force in the same era, but we don't anything else about that yet.
-------
I'm pretty sure that Lee and Johns have confirmed in interviews that all the heroes are going to be hated and feared to start with.
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Adam Hutchinson
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Joined: 15 December 2005
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| Posted: 31 August 2011 at 1:49pm | IP Logged | 7
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Because sucks is subjective?Jason the vibe I've gotten is that the heroes start off "hated and feared" in the "5 years ago..." titles (JLA and Action). I doubt that'll be the case in the titles set in the present, but of course I could be wrong. As it is I find myself more excited about the secondary and tertiary titles.
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Derek S. Wilczynski
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Joined: 14 May 2010
Posts: 139
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| Posted: 31 August 2011 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | 8
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I bought JLA #1 and Flashpoint #5 at lunch today and enjoyed them both. However, I bought comics before the reboot and will do so after, so my "dollar" doesn't really matter. Let's just hope that other people buy them and enjoy them as well.
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JT Molloy
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
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| Posted: 31 August 2011 at 1:53pm | IP Logged | 9
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I didn't say sucks wasn't subjective, I said Why do you have to wait until you read every last issue and others beforejsljkfsdjklsdfjklasdfkasdk
Honestly I'm too bored to keep typing. This thread has suddenly turned into a handful of people on DC's jock.
I guess that Jim Lee art was good enough after all.
Peace. I'm out.
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Trevor Giberson
Byrne Robotics Chronology
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 1888
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| Posted: 31 August 2011 at 1:55pm | IP Logged | 10
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QUOTE:
| Nope! Not one bit. Maybe you got bored or just didn't like the kind of stories going on back then. That's not why I don't like newer stuff. It goes deeped than that. It's not about the stories being told within the confines of the characters, it's about HOW they're being told.
Take Carnage for instance. A lot of older fans HATE the character, but he was introduced in a single code approved issue with a mystery, a fight, side plots and character development. The character is loved by a lot of (former) fans of my generation. THAT's the kind of divide that used to occur. "Hey, this kid's stuff is stupid". It's natural. It happens.
Vastly different from what I'm bitter about. |
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Honestly, I don't think I've ever read a story with Carnage in it. :)
In my case, the main factors that made me give up on DC & Marvel back in the late '80s/early '90s:
* Crappy, money-grabbing, cross-continuity crossovers, like Invasion or Secret Wars II.
* Flooding the market with titles. I think there were four or five X-Men titles, plus and endless stream of mini-series when I dropped off. It got to the point where you couldn't follow all the heroes of a particular universe.
* Hotshotting hero deaths.
* Marketing to the collector - foil covers, card inserts, multiple covers, etc
* Not respecting the characters (Parallax is a good example, although that happened after I left).
* Crappy artists like Todd McFarlane, Rob Liefeld and their imitators became the style of the day. And that style was dreck.
* The direct market - there were no comic stores near me. A lot of the titles I couldn't get anyway.
* They just weren't my characters anymore. I'd been reading comics since I was a little kid, and whomever this Batman and this Hulk were, they sure weren't the characters I knew and loved.
* I had left high-school and gone to college. Girls and beer (not to mention rent, tuition and food!) were more important than comics.
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Trevor Giberson
Byrne Robotics Chronology
Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 31 August 2011 at 1:56pm | IP Logged | 11
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QUOTE:
| I'm pretty sure that Lee and Johns have confirmed in interviews that all the heroes are going to be hated and feared to start with. |
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Ah. I haven't read the interview or solits, so you guys are probably more in the loop than me.
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Adam Hutchinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4502
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| Posted: 31 August 2011 at 2:10pm | IP Logged | 12
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Ahhhh everyone who doesn't dismiss the entire publishing initiative
based on part one of one story are "on DC's jock." Mature.
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