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Tim O Neill Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 2004 April 16 Location: United States Posts: 10940
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Posted: 2011 July 22 at 8:29am | IP Logged | 1
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I had the same reaction as Adam. All snarkiness aside and objectively speaking, it's irresponsible and misleading to use percentages when expressing an opinion unless it is a reflection of facts.
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Robert LaGuardia Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2007 November 15 Location: United States Posts: 1296
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Posted: 2011 July 22 at 8:32am | IP Logged | 2
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Kirk I agree that readership is down but not as much as sales figures would indicate. Like I said it's difficult to know how many people are downloading illegally but there are a lot. My point about recognition is a response to your question whether All Star Superman is recognized by fans as the older classics are and I'd say yes it is.
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Adam Hutchinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2005 December 15 Location: United States Posts: 4502
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Posted: 2011 July 22 at 8:47am | IP Logged | 3
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I'd agree All-Star Superman and New Frontier are both on their way to becoming classics. Just give them some time. It's hard to look at a current era and say "Hey that's a classic. It's revered.". You don't have the perspective yet.
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Kirk Campbell Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2010 September 27 Posts: 232
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Posted: 2011 July 22 at 8:50am | IP Logged | 4
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Kirk I agree that readership is down but not as much as sales figures would indicate. Like I said it's difficult to know how many people are downloading illegally but there are a lot.
I think it's fair and safe to say that readership is significantly down from the era which produced Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns, even with illegal downloading. I mean, people illegally download movies yet the film industry continually experiences record revenue year after year. Plus it's not only sales - accessibility clearly factors in and there's no way readership can be comparable to where it was, when comics were available to kids at convenient stores. My point about recognition is a response to your question whether All Star Superman is recognized by fans as the older classics are and I'd say yes it is. I'm not necessarily talking about JUST the fans when we talk about recognition.
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Kirk Campbell Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2010 September 27 Posts: 232
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Posted: 2011 July 22 at 8:55am | IP Logged | 5
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I had the same reaction as Adam. All snarkiness aside and objectively speaking, it's irresponsible and misleading to use percentages when expressing an opinion unless it is a reflection of facts. Well I apologize if people felt misled by what I posted. That wasn't my intent, obviously. I was merely trying to convey my observation. Having said that, I think it's a point that doesn't really need to be harped on any further.
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Stephen Churay Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2009 March 25 Location: United States Posts: 8369
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Posted: 2011 July 22 at 9:04am | IP Logged | 6
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I believe readership to definitely be on a downward slope. But, I'd be curious to see if the readership is actually down as much as we think or are individual issue sales down due to having to pick and choose from the ridiculous amount of product out there. We've have threads where many of us have distilled the Big Two's comic lines down by as much as half according to what we would like to collect. The last I looked, Marvel was putting out almost a hundred titles a month, and about three quarters of them were Marvel Universe. DC is about to be at 52 books for the DC Universe, but all indications point to the number of titles growing.
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Kirk Campbell Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2010 September 27 Posts: 232
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Posted: 2011 July 22 at 9:06am | IP Logged | 7
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I'd agree All-Star Superman and New Frontier are both on their way to becoming classics. Just give them some time. It's hard to look at a current era and say "Hey that's a classic. It's revered.". You don't have the perspective yet. The Night Gwen Stacy Died, The Dark Phoenix Saga, The Dark Knight Returns, and Watchmen all had immediate and profound impacts on the industry. Now, I'm not arguing that a story like All Star Superman isn't revered by fans and won't be considered a "classic" X-amount of years from now. But there's just no way IMO that it will have the impact and recognition that those other stories had, given the current state of the industry.
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Robert LaGuardia Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2007 November 15 Location: United States Posts: 1296
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Posted: 2011 July 22 at 9:31am | IP Logged | 8
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If we're talking about non- fans also Kirk I don't think DKR is really known. People know Watchmen from the movie really. I get your point about the availability of comics and I agree but still think the amount of illegal downloading would surprise you. Movie theaters give a whole different experience than home viewing. Most people don't have humongous screens and that's not to mention 3D.
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Kirk Campbell Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2010 September 27 Posts: 232
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Posted: 2011 July 22 at 9:33am | IP Logged | 9
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Well, we'll just agree to disagree on this Robert. I just don't personally believe that readership is as strong as it was in 1985.
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Robert LaGuardia Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2007 November 15 Location: United States Posts: 1296
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Posted: 2011 July 22 at 10:37pm | IP Logged | 10
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That's cool with me Kirk I hope I didn't come off as too contentious, that wasn't my intent. I also think we agree more than not.
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Ted Pugliese Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2005 December 05 Location: United States Posts: 7985
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Posted: 2011 July 23 at 8:03am | IP Logged | 11
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In recent news and interviews, again we see the current 'professionals' crapping on the characters. It bothers me to hear they got together and felt the need to address, discuss, and scrap Superman's 'underwear.'.They are not underwear, and the people who work there should understand that, and appreciate the history, success, and value of the look of the brand. Superman's costume is not the problem. Never was. It works well in comics, cartoons, and movies, as is. But the people guiding the icons and making decisions do not understand that...
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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2004 April 16 Location: United States Posts: 12857
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Posted: 2011 July 23 at 9:27am | IP Logged | 12
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This is from Newsarama's previews, and is probably from DC:
I've moaned and groaned about the trunks, but that is now the least of my complaints. The costume is now a chunk of molded armor. Good Dog, is there anything about this depiction that suggests any heroism? Or humanity? This is not Superman ... it's some kind of Facist diety.
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