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Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5089
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| Posted: 01 May 2011 at 6:13pm | IP Logged | 1
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Grant Morrison--------AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGG GHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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Michael Todd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 September 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 4115
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| Posted: 01 May 2011 at 8:06pm | IP Logged | 2
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Sadly it's become associated with the character so much so that even a google search of "Iron Man" produced this right away. 
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CJ Grebb
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 449
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| Posted: 01 May 2011 at 8:28pm | IP Logged | 3
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Hmmmm . . .
You know, It seems clear that Marvel studios is mainly concerned with live action films that struggle to be as "realistic" as possible because they believe that modern audiences won't accept "classic" superhero stories.
Whatever.
Yet it seems that the public is a little more willing to accept what some on this board might consider "classic" comic book storytelling when computer animated.
Coincidentally, Disney owns Marvel.
If only we knew someone with a little pull at Disney, especially when it comes to 3D animated films. Maybe Marvel would be willing to tell some joyous superhero stories if they were done in 3D, separate from the live-action versions.
I'm just sayin'. |
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Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
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| Posted: 02 May 2011 at 8:11am | IP Logged | 4
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The current establishment at Marvel has now made this a core of Tony Stark's character. The Point One issue took place at an AA meeting. Bendis and Millar have really made a point of it. Granted I still read some Marvel Comics but a guy like Bendis is an example of taking the "alcoholic" Tony Stark and "wife beater" Hank Pym and made those they're defining characteristics. Needless to say, I feel that these characteristics are one of the many ways that he doesn't "get" the characters.
Edited by Shawn Kane on 02 May 2011 at 8:11am
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Roger A Ott II
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5371
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| Posted: 02 May 2011 at 8:21am | IP Logged | 5
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I didn't start reading Iron Man until near the end of his second bout with the bottle written by Denny O'Neil. As someone who has an alcoholic father, for me as a 12-13 year old, it was a very emotional story. Tony Stark pulling himself back up and reclaiming his life was what got me to be a huge fan of the character. It also gave me an eye-opening perspective on how far a person can fall, and made me aware of my own potential for substance abuse and what it could cost me.
I think that should have been the last of it, though. It isn't necessary to trod out that story again, and it really hasn't been brought up that much since. Touched on here and there over the years, but never as a major story device.
Besides, there are far worse things being done with Tony Stark today. The Tony Stark/Iron Man I cared about was last seen when Kurt Busiek wrote him a decade ago. How sad is that?
Edited by Roger A Ott II on 02 May 2011 at 8:25am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133317
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| Posted: 02 May 2011 at 8:54am | IP Logged | 6
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I didn't start reading Iron Man until near the end of his second bout with the bottle written by Denny O'Neil.•• Denny is a dry -- and crusading -- alcoholic himself. He was not about to let the alcoholism storyline just fade away, like Superman's latest encounter with kryptonite.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133317
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| Posted: 02 May 2011 at 9:00am | IP Logged | 7
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Emery, congratulations on an excellently observed series of comics' most egregious and nauseating "Jump the Shark" moments.*** That was a good list. Maybe we should call it "Jumping the Stark" when it happens in comics. •• Years upon years ago, it was a habit amongst some of us in the Biz to refer to these "shark jumping" moments as "Batman's insane older brother". "I want to do blah-de-blah!" "Oh, no, man! That's Batman's insane older brother all over again!"
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 02 May 2011 at 9:13am | IP Logged | 8
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The problem with superhero comics over the years is the loss of metaphor. You want to use Iron Man to tell an "alcoholism" story, then have him become "addicted" to being in his armor. The ramifications could be the same but not anchored in the real world, where the solutions to such issues are much more complex.
(I think David Boreanaz commented that he played Angel as a recovering alcoholic -- a good guy who is one lapse away from becoming a destructive monster. Again, a comic-book metaphor.)
The Hulk was traditionally a great way to explore "the darker impulses" of man but then it became very obviously a "multiple personality disorder." Again, the loss of metaphor.
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Amyas Hardy
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 76
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| Posted: 02 May 2011 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | 9
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Did Batman really have an insane older brother?
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Andrew Hess
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9845
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| Posted: 02 May 2011 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | 10
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Amyas -
Yes, in World's Finest back in the 70s by Bob Haney, who played pretty fast & loose with continuity.
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Kip Lewis
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Joined: 01 March 2011
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| Posted: 02 May 2011 at 3:32pm | IP Logged | 11
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Metaphors are interesting, because I have talked with people including at least one professional writer who view metaphor approach to storytelling as the cowards' way. That discussion wasn't about alcholism but race.
and if you take at least 2 people here found encouragement in directly dealing with the issue, where a metaphor storyline might have no such impact.
I do see a value in them, but sometimes being direct is better.
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Robert White
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4560
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| Posted: 02 May 2011 at 3:54pm | IP Logged | 12
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I always liked Tolkien's critique of metaphor in the forward of The Lord of the Rings. I believe he said that metaphor dealt with the forced domination of the author, while applicability to everyone's experience, coming from his own experience, was his method. I never thought of it like that before and feel that he made an excellent point.
Metaphor does seem to be considered the superior method, and I certainly think that it has its place, but I can't help but view it as a method to make writers feel clever. Is that added layer of complexity always needed? Is it just human pretension?
Edited by Robert White on 02 May 2011 at 3:56pm
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Topic Closed)
