| Author |
|
Aaron Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 10461
|
| Posted: 01 May 2011 at 8:00am | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
I have to agree with Greg. Although JB's run was without a doubt the highlight of Superman during my lifetime, I did continue to enjoy the Superman titles for years after he left. There were annoyances like the "Death," those silly triangle numbers on the covers so you didn't get lost reading them in order, and too many titles at once, but Stern and Ordway and various others still told pretty good stories for awhile.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Garry Porter II
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 February 2011
Posts: 327
|
| Posted: 01 May 2011 at 10:31am | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
I'll agree to disagree with you there. I think people like Dan Jurgens, Roger Stern, Jerry Ordway, Kerry Gammill, Bob McLeod, Louise Simonson,Jon Bogdanove and Jackson Guice did a great job.
**
ok let me break it down. i read nearly every issue of that era in the 90's. i did like Jerry Ordway as a writer......sometimes. but the only writer that stood out to me was Roger Stern. i was familiar with Stern because of Doctor Strange and ESPECIALLY the Avengers. Stern's Avengers, to me, was some of the best Avengers stories for that title. but to me, Roger Stern was the best writer on Superman when JB left. i could always depend on his stories about Superman. it just seemed to me that Stern and Byrne's Superman were similar enough, that i could follow the stories.
but Jerry Ordway as artist, i liked a lot better. i liked him along with Kerry Gammill, and Butch Guice, and Bob McCleod as artists. Gammil's and McCleod's art reminded me of Byrne's art sometimes.
but for me, that era as a whole was very disappointing. it was like they didn't know what to do with Superman to me.
example, when JB was on Superman, eventhough his prestigious strength wasn't on the godhood level or godlike, or he couldn't move the earth or moon anymore after the original Crisis, under Byrne his strength was just right. when Byrne left, his strength was greatly reduced even more, making him extremely weak in my view. his power level went down, making him susceptible to being hurt by, in my view, 4th or 5th tier level villains. and some villains were hurting Superman that the 90's team even made up. to me, most of those stories were not good looking back.
that creative team, back then, had Superman get beat up and hurt easily, almost constantly.
example: Lobo beat Superman up in his own book back then. there was no challenge to Lobo, he just beat Superman up easy. and, Superman seemed very scared of Lobo. not only that, but Superman's power level seemed to be incredibly weak, i.e. he seemed to bleed easily during that battle with Lobo as Lobo was continuously pummeling Superman with blow after blow and getting Superman in headlocks and ramming him into walls. i remember Lobo saying that Superman fights "like a butler" and that's why he is losing to him. in other words, he was calling Superman a wimp. when Byrne was writing him, Superman actually had me scared, because i thought he was self-confident, and just an all around tough minded guy. but, make no mistake, Supes was actually scared of Lobo. even if Superman was recharging his power, and wasn't up to full strength, he still should have been able to beat Lobo, i don't care how tough Lobo THINKS he is.
and there are other examples too. i got plenty for Superman from the 90's era. and IMO, it's not really good.
but, all in all, as the 90's rolled on, in my view, being in hindsight by that point, it became evident to me that, most of the team of that era didn't know what to do with the character or his regular rogues gallery. do you remember the bad stuff they did with Brainiac and Luthor back during the 90's? not good to me.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Aaron Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 10461
|
| Posted: 01 May 2011 at 2:17pm | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
I didn't realize earlier that the guy who wrote this story, David Goyer, was also the writer on the next Superman movie. I won't be seeing that movie now, as this story has put Goyer on my list of those whose work I won't buy. Pull up a chair next to Peter Jackson, David!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5095
|
| Posted: 01 May 2011 at 7:02pm | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
Garry, I don't remember Superman being de-powered under those guys. The only time I remember seeing him bleed in a battle was with Doomsday. During the 1990's, and you may not have liked all of the villains, but he fought some heavy hitters. Mongul, Doomsday, Draaga, Massacre and Cyborg Superman being a few. In the battles with Lobo during "Day of the Krypton Man", Superman was under the influence of the Eradicator and was merciless. He enganges in 3 battles with Lobo, Maxima and Draaga, and each is lucky to survive. Superman was not frightened of any of them. He also fought the monsters of The Evil Factory and soundly beat them. As an aside as well. The 1990's creative teams ramped Superman's powers up again from 1993 - 1994.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Eric Smearman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 5844
|
| Posted: 01 May 2011 at 7:31pm | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
IIRC, Superman's power levels seemed to increase quite a bit during
the Loeb-Kelly-Casey-Schulz years.If Waid, Morrison, Millard and Peyer would've gotten to do their
SUPERMAN 2000 revamp his powers would have tripled from the
post-JB levels.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Monte Gruhlke
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3303
|
| Posted: 01 May 2011 at 8:15pm | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
"I been readin' about you...How you work for the Americans.. And how on a planet someplace you helped out the Thanagarians...And you done considerable for the Mexicans, Europeans and Asians! Only there's one 'ans' you never bothered with--! The Iranians! I want to know... How come?! Answer me that, Mr. Superman!"
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Flavio Sapha
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Brazil
Posts: 12912
|
| Posted: 01 May 2011 at 10:55pm | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
Funny, Monte!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Brad Brickley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8290
|
| Posted: 01 May 2011 at 10:57pm | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
"I'm the Goddam Superman!"
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
| |
Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5095
|
| Posted: 02 May 2011 at 6:09pm | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
And he's done bugger all for Krypton ---- oh wait!!!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Pete York
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1198
|
| Posted: 02 May 2011 at 6:44pm | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
QUOTE:
| "I'm the Goddam Superman!" |
|
|
And we are all the children of Frank Miller. Even as a joke, this line reminds me of how much has descended from DKR. I don't know where it first appeared, but clearly the notion of Superman as a tool for the American government enters the collective comics conscience by way of DARK KNIGHT. Then it suddenly becomes an idea people like to throw around, and over time, gains some kind of traction (even if that traction is that it just won't go away). So, 25 years on, there's a story in which a writer finally wants to address and refute that notion, one which there's no reason for its existence in the first place.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Craig Jackson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 March 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 63
|
| Posted: 02 May 2011 at 7:07pm | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
I looked up David Goyer on IMDB, and he has a list of writing credits a mile long.. .and it's a pretty pathetic list. How did the writer of "Kickboxer II" and the David Hasselhoff "Nick Fury" television movie keep getting work in Hollywood? He doesn't seem like a person capable of an original idea, as his work is almost exclusively adaptations of other people's material. And his best work ("Dark City" and the "Batman" movies) are stuff where he's a co-writer. With Zach Snyder as director and David Goyer as the writer, I am not looking foward to "Superman VI."
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Emery Calame
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5773
|
| Posted: 02 May 2011 at 9:16pm | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
This is the kind of wild and crazy shocking idea that pops into the head of the comics company that decided to kill the new Gods off TWICE because they didn't know how to write stories for them and in the process were apparently trying launch a really pitiful "new and modern" take on a successor Forever People group. I guess I should be grateful that Superman is not dramatically and publicly renouncing $#@#ing Rao or journalism, or the colors blue, red, and yellow.
It makes me morbidly wonder what Cyborg Superman and Evil Superboy Prime will renounce when they slink back into view. What would Ultraman renounce? Who cares?
It seems to me that DC could get a lot farther doing something more productive like fixing the mess they made of the Captain Marvel characters.
Edited by Emery Calame on 02 May 2011 at 9:22pm
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
|
|
Topic Closed)
