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Greg McPhee Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5095
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Posted: 30 April 2011 at 8:48pm | IP Logged | 1
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I liked some of the stuff that Geoff Johns and Kurt Busiek did for Superman, and I have enjoyed Paul Cornell's Lex Luthor storyline, but for me I lost real interest in Superman after Dan Jurgens left in 1999. He was the last connection to the Post-Crisis Superman saga that had been running from 1986. Since that point Superman has been a pretty lost cause. PS I was also a big Pre-Crisis Superman fan.
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Jodi Moisan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008 Location: United States Posts: 6832
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Posted: 30 April 2011 at 10:16pm | IP Logged | 2
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OK so the Ultimate Nick Fury is a completely non related character to the old Nick Fury?
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Stephen Churay Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009 Location: United States Posts: 8369
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Posted: 30 April 2011 at 11:25pm | IP Logged | 3
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I've been out of pocket for a week and just heard about this today. It seems to have been unfashionable to attach "The American Way" tag to Superman for some time now. So carrying it to this extent doesn't surprise me in the least. I don't always agree with what our government does around the world, but I'm tired a people being apologetic and ashamed of being an American. When comics were still something our adolescent kids read, superheroes were there to reaffirm the basic morality of right and wrong that they were being taught from there families and/or there faith in a higher power. They didn't dwell on the negativity that real world issues can sometimes bring. In this way, Superman out shined them all. During WWII, even though the covers might show the hero knocking the snot out of Hitler, the creators were very careful not to undermine the work being done by soldiers and real people by having try to solve real world issues. They knew it was a slippery slope. One of two things are going to come from this storyline. Either they keep this "realistic" and deal with how this effects Clark and his entire life as it concerns his living here, marriage, and mother and send the character into ruin. Or, it can be written to eventually reaffirm his faith in this country and reestablish his connection to the American Way. Unfortunately, I don't think I can be around as a reader to see the outcome. As someone who has a continuos run of every Superman title since JB's Man Of Steel to present I will be canceling all of these titles from my pull list for the foreseeable future.
Edited by Stephen Churay on 30 April 2011 at 11:28pm
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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 8515
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Posted: 01 May 2011 at 12:32am | IP Logged | 4
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I have no doubt that David S. Goyer means it when he has Superman renounce his U.S. citizenship. I have no doubt that, being the Show Business God that he is, DC Editorial fell about themselves to print any and every scrap that dropped, gloriously, down upon them from his exalted position amongst the Stars. All that being said, I believe most of DC's staff and creators (aside from those in Accounting) probably wish this hadn't happened. David S. Goyer has, in dilletante fashion, made a political statement for all DC Comics using Action #900 as a pulpit and Superman as his puppet. I imagine there are a slew of ventriloquists waiting backstage for him to vacant the podium and get that wooden-headed dummy saying all the right things again. Now that it's gotten some ink, DC Editorial is profit-bound to see how much more can be wrung from this, but, allowing for the inevitable Graphic Novel-length storylines that now MUST be spooled from this tangle, I expect we'll be seeing more covers like these again within two or three years, as tales are crafted that show Superman learning from veterans, citizens, and emergency responders exactly what the American Spirit truly means, how it stills lives and strives within him despite his momentary, political short-sightedness, how the call of patriotism cannot be lost in the din of transient... (insert here 12 minutes from a Charlie McCarthy U.S.O. show...)
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Michael Andrew Gonoude Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 September 2005 Posts: 2785
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Posted: 01 May 2011 at 12:38am | IP Logged | 5
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Brian, I robustly salute the American flag, and you. By the way, any truth to the rumor that Goyer has submitted a follow-up story in which Superman returns to flying so he can knock American bald eagles out of the sky?
Edited by Michael Andrew Gonoude on 01 May 2011 at 12:40am
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Garry Porter II Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 February 2011 Posts: 327
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Posted: 01 May 2011 at 1:16am | IP Logged | 6
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but for me I lost real interest in Superman after Dan Jurgens left in 1999.
**
when that creative team replaced John Byrne on Superman, was the time when my interest in the character started to wane, as a whole. when they got on Superman after JB, Superman didn't seem like a man anymore. he was more of a symbol then. and that wasn't for me.
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Francesco Vanagolli Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 June 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 3130
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Posted: 01 May 2011 at 3:01am | IP Logged | 7
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Brian, thank you: ACTION #803 was my first Superman book when I subscribed to the American titles, and I have good memories of it.The cover was awesome!
It was during the second Iraq War days, so a cover featuring Superman and the old glory seemed so... normal, to me. Really, I couldn't to see anything wrong if an AMERICAN popculture icon had an American flag. Anyway, the story was about the then current Zod pretending he was Superman under president Luthor's control...
Yesterday I wrote to the Superman lettercol, I cannot copy here the text, now property of DC, but the sense of it was "the United States are the result of the work of immigrant from various parts of the world; and Superman should be the best embodiment of the American dream, being an immigrate from the stars who perfectly integrated himself in the American society".
Alright, America is maybe less populat than in the past, so no exagerate nationalism in comics can be a wise choice.
But one of the things I appreciate in the American people, is that they are proud of their nationality. They're united, more than we Italians. I could say I envy you a bit for this.
So, I don't expect to read a comic book where Superman says "ha-ha, we American are the best, kneel before us, inferior beings!", but I don't expect to read a comic book where Superman renounces to his primary cultural (and not policit) identity. It's completely pointless.
Is this the effect of politically correctness?
Once you could say "niger" (or black), then it became "colored". Once you could say "handicapped", then it became "differently abled".
And now...
Once, you could say "American", is it going to become "differently Anglosaxon" now?
In the famous manga Captain Tsubasa, Tsubasa Ozora, the main character, is a Japanese kid who dreams to become a soccer champion. In the last volume of the second manga series, he wins the Under-21 World Cup with the Japan National Team, and he talks to the audience at the stadium about peace, and how it would be good if Nations could solve their conflicts on the soccer fields.
According to DC's new "Superman policy", Tsubasa's speech wouldn't be good because he's wearing the Japanese Team t-shirt.
Ain't this absurd?
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Andy Mokler Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 January 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2799
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Posted: 01 May 2011 at 5:04am | IP Logged | 8
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Even though it's topical to this thread, I coincidentally just won this on eBay!:
It might be kind of hard to read but this was a poster for teachers back in '88. Why does that seem like such a long time ago?
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Flavio Sapha Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Brazil Posts: 12912
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Posted: 01 May 2011 at 5:29am | IP Logged | 9
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Super!
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Flavio Sapha Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Brazil Posts: 12912
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Posted: 01 May 2011 at 5:35am | IP Logged | 10
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Re: covers shown on the previous page. #803 is decent. #702, Cassaday's looks boring as usual. #600, WTF happened to Superman's face? How the hell did that get approved?
Edited by Flavio Sapha on 01 May 2011 at 5:37am
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Greg McPhee Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5095
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Posted: 01 May 2011 at 7:15am | IP Logged | 11
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This one was from around the time of the first Gul War:
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Greg McPhee Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5095
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Posted: 01 May 2011 at 7:18am | IP Logged | 12
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when that creative team replaced John Byrne on Superman, was the time when my interest in the character started to wane, as a whole. when they got on Superman after JB, Superman didn't seem like a man anymore. he was more of a symbol then. and that wasn't for me. =================================================== I'll agree to disagree with you there. I think people like Dan Jurgens, Roger Stern, Jerry Ordway, Kerry Gammill, Bob McLeod, Louise Simonson,Jon Bogdanove and Jackson Guice did a great job.
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