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Bill Catellier
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Joined: 19 September 2007
Location: United States
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| Posted: 27 March 2011 at 10:30pm | IP Logged | 1
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I'd say the Destroyer can't destroy the Juggernaut and in a slugfest the Destroyer loses. However, the Destroyer has enough powers to avoid that and strike from a distance. Maybe not straight out beating Juggernaut, but able to deal with him in other ways. Certainly a battle that can be written to either person's advantage.
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Brennan Voboril
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Joined: 15 January 2011
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| Posted: 27 March 2011 at 11:08pm | IP Logged | 2
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The Destroyer just seems more menacing in every way to me.
When did they say Odin created him to fight the Celestials? I missed hearing about that.
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Marc M. Woolman
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| Posted: 27 March 2011 at 11:45pm | IP Logged | 3
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The Destroyer is supposed to be this unstoppable, massively destructive force designed to kill universal cosmic entities, but apparently it can't do that. The Juggernaut's supposed to be unstoppable but has been stopped and driven back before. The Hulk staggered the juggernaut with one massive punch. He's also stale-mated the Juggernaut wherein neither one budged the other and the ground was giving way beneath their feat. I'm not sure what to think about these two facing off, but to my mind, the Destroyer should be able to decimate the Silver Surfer, and I could not see the Juggernaut being able to do so. The Juggernaut seems like he belongs (just barely) in the mortal/super-being realm, while the Destroyer seems more cosmic in scope. but I don't really have a good handle on either of their histories.
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Kevin Hagerman
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| Posted: 27 March 2011 at 11:50pm | IP Logged | 4
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Who wins? The readers!
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Wayde Murray
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| Posted: 28 March 2011 at 3:46am | IP Logged | 5
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Brennan wrote:
When did they say Odin created him to fight the Celestials? I missed hearing about that.
** The Celestials first showed up in Thor's comic in issue #283, and they (along with the Eternals and Deviants) were a big part of the next fifteen issues or so. That run included the origin of Odin, the history of Asgard per 2,000 years ago, and a Thor-based retelling of the saga of Sigfried. The reveal concerning the true purpose of the Destroyer and the Odinsword was also in this run. Destroyer v Celestials was in the oversized Thor #300. --- Marc wrote:
The Juggernaut's supposed to be unstoppable but has been stopped and driven back before. ** That shouldn't happen, really. If we apply the specialist rule, the only thing unique about the Juggernaut among all the strong-man characters in comics is the specificity of the spell that gives him power. If he "cannot be stopped", then he should never be shown as coming to a halt through any means except by his own decision. Even if he's stopped permanently in battle by a psychic attack, that should only come when he's not moving. Otherwise he's just one more big strong guy. To me, "Nothing Stops The Juggernaut" should trump "Nobody's Stronger Than The Hulk" in any given scene. The Hulk should win, but it should be in keeping with the restrictions imposed by the wording of Juggernaut's spell.
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Michael Penn
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Joined: 12 April 2006
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| Posted: 28 March 2011 at 4:01am | IP Logged | 6
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Although the entire Celestial saga featured excellent artwork by Keith Pollard, I really hated how much of Asgardian "history" as established by Lee-Kirby was either ignored or retconned. Part of what that did was to demote the lofty status of Odin, who Lee-Kirby spoke of as so powerful that when he sent Thor to find Galactus, the latter was said to possess a power to rival that of Odin. Even if Galactus is #1, Odin was no piker! All that's a prelude to my feeling that the Destroyer's Odin-magic would win over Juggernaut's.
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Paulo Pereira
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Joined: 24 April 2006
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| Posted: 28 March 2011 at 7:01am | IP Logged | 7
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The Destroyer pimp-slaps the Juggernaut all over the lot, just like Nimrod did. Not including Odin, only the Celestials have proven to be the Destroyer's master*, if I'm not mistaken.
To further Michael's point, who would win, Cyttorrak or Odin? I'd go with Odin.
*actually maybe Galactus too; anyway, Galactus would prevail
Edited by Paulo Pereira on 28 March 2011 at 7:02am
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Garry Porter II
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| Posted: 28 March 2011 at 7:34am | IP Logged | 8
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we have to remember that there are basically two celestials arcs in thor. one was when keith pollard was drawing it(early 80's) and one was when ron frenz was drawing it(late 80's). personally, i like the early 80's celestials arc.
but, also we have to understand that, since jack kirby, everything about the celestials that we have seen in a marvel comic has been retcons IMO. everything that has happened with them over the years, i don't think matched kirby's intentions.
and since lee and kirby were on thor, i don't think odin has been interpreted or represented right(example: thor #300). but, i thought that the destroyer was just another weapon built by odin also.
most things that we found out about the celestials that was revealed in thor #300 was also retcons IMO.
i like to go back to the original intent of the creators:
this brings us to the destroyer. i could be wrong here, but i don't think kirby and stan lee created the destroyer to kill celestials. yes the destroyer has great power, but it is sorely limited. it has to be animated or it loses its mobility for example.
juggernaut's power, on the other hand, deals strictly with strength and physical might and power.
i would say juggernaut wins this one....but not easy. but not difficult either.
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Paulo Pereira
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| Posted: 28 March 2011 at 7:47am | IP Logged | 9
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garry wrote:
| yes the destroyer has great power, but it is sorely limited. it has to be animated or it loses its mobility for example. |
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Obviously. Otherwise the Destroyer is just an empty shell for the Juggernaut to pound on...to no effect.
QUOTE:
| juggernaut's power, on the other hand, deals strictly with strength and physical might and power. |
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As it is with the Destroyer.
Edited by Paulo Pereira on 28 March 2011 at 7:47am
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Armindo Macieira
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| Posted: 28 March 2011 at 9:58am | IP Logged | 10
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The Destroyer pimp-slaps the Juggernaut all over the lot, just like Nimrod did.
************************************************************ ****************
Don't forget that Nimrod used a vast array of powers to defeat Juggernaut, not just brute force. The Destroyer only has force and some kind of power blast from its visor.
I honestly think it can go either way. I vaguely remember (correct me if I'm wrong) that the Thing defeated the Destroyer back when it was an herald for Galactus... if so, then Juggernaut can also defeat big D.
Edited by Armindo Macieira on 28 March 2011 at 9:58am
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Paulo Pereira
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| Posted: 28 March 2011 at 10:18am | IP Logged | 11
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Good point about Nimrod, Armindo. I just think the Destroyer is more indomitable than the Juggernaut. It's not subject to psionic attacks like Juggernaut and has no circuitry like Nimrod.
As far as Thing beating Destroyer, I'm curious to see that myself. It also makes me curious about a Destroyer/Punisher (the Galactus robot) match-up.
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Garry Porter II
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| Posted: 28 March 2011 at 11:56am | IP Logged | 12
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peronally, i like the kirby/lee juggernaut and destroyer. there is a purity about those versions. i can understand their power better. so if we are just talking about these characters in general, then i can go with the original versions, then i say it's a draw, but with the destroyer actually having a noticeable edge. because, eventhough juggernaut and destroyer both have their power steeped in magic, juggernaut, when written right, in my opinion is still human.
now, if we are talking juggernaut and destroyer circa the big celestials storyline in thor(keith pollard/chic stone era), and with all the retcons and writing that strayed away somewhat from what lee/kirby intended(original intent of the celestials included) of these characters; given that at this time, the destroyer had the unealistic power to battle celestials and in theory, kill them, and was a herald of Galactus(which i thought was silly), then i'd say the destroyer wins. but, not without the juggernaut making things a costly fight for the destroyer.
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