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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4634
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| Posted: 22 March 2011 at 12:40pm | IP Logged | 1
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Given the bind he was put into by Stan, I think Conway made the best choice. Actually resurrecting her from the dead would have been absolutely terrible... that's an idea that almost never works, and would be completely wrong in tone for a book like Spider-Man. On the other hand, revealing she wasn't actually dead would have been a huge cop-out. And in either case, Conway would have been stuck with the old problem of "what do we do with Gwen now?" once she was back.
His solution was a clever way to bring her back without really bringing her back, which made it that much easier to write her out again when the story was over. And it gave him a chance to underscore the reasons she needed to be written out of the book in the first place.
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Brian Floyd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 8790
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| Posted: 22 March 2011 at 1:46pm | IP Logged | 2
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I wouldn't bring her back. But I do think that the Sins Past storyline should be completely tossed out. It cheapens her death, makes her less sympathetic, and requires retconning to even make it feasible.And by tossing it out, I don't mean doing a storyline that reveals the whole thing was a hoax (ie, the `kids' were some sort of complex clones and lies were told); I mean just ignore the whole thing ever happened.
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Paul Simpson Simpson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 April 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 939
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| Posted: 22 March 2011 at 1:53pm | IP Logged | 3
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I'd go with Jodi's idea.
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Monte Gruhlke
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Joined: 03 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3299
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| Posted: 22 March 2011 at 1:55pm | IP Logged | 4
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Marvel is rife with methods and story notions of bringing back someone who's dead. Over the years, it seems that Gwen's death had inadvertently become almost as important a moment in Peter's life as Uncle Ben's death - and just as influential.
Anyone can come back as a result of good storytelling - with comic books anything can happen. Gwen's death has already been belittled by the Goblin’s frequent resurrections, and then her memory shat on by the supposed Gwen's Twins storyline.
If I brought her back, I'd propose that Miles Warren (the Jackal), who had secretly loved her, had at some previous point abducted her to keep her close-by in stasis, while releasing a clone of her out into the world where no one would suspect. Since she was now in Warren's clutches and her DNA readily available, the clone would be more stable and beyond detection. So at the bridge, it was the clone that Goblin had abducted. The real Gwen Stacy has been in stasis in a secret chamber ever since, which is why she never came forward... that is until recently when the power finally fails and her eyes began to open...
Edited by Monte Gruhlke on 22 March 2011 at 1:56pm
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Joseph Gauthier
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Joined: 11 March 2009
Posts: 1429
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| Posted: 22 March 2011 at 2:40pm | IP Logged | 5
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ASM 147-149 are my favorite issues of my favorite run by my favorite creative team of my favorite character...well you get the idea. And with that in mind, I'd stay mostly faithful to the original story but if the clone angle had to be revised:
Gwen's body mysteriously disappears from the morgue, sending Peter into a confused and panicked rage, desperate to find out...What Happened to Gwen?
Of course the disappearance of the murdered remains of a late police captain's daughter is treated as the highest priority by the NYPD, with Peter Parker as the prime suspect, and Spider-man as suspect #2.
Now temporarily hounded by the police in both identities, Peter conducts his own investigation which eventually focuses on the strange behavior of his room mate, leading directly to conflict with the second Green Goblin. With Harry Osborn proven innocent of the body snatching, a frustrated Peter gives up any hope of finding the truth on his own, and resolves to leave the investigation to the police.
As time passes, and hope dims, Peter's motives gradually return to the primary responsibilities of everyday life, making up for missed deadlines at the Bugle and Empire State University, and missed diners with Aunt May. But difficulties mount as Peter attempts to make-up for these mis-steps, as villains, both old and new, seek out Spider-man in places frequented by Peter Parker. How could this be? Same as before...enter the Jackal:
Shortly after learning of Gwen's death Miles Warren steals the body from the morgue and raises her from the dead, using a Dr. Frankenstein type procedure he had been working on. In his madness, however, he failed to consider the complication of her broken neck, and panics when he realizes he has resurrected a totally paralyzed young woman. Driven further into madness by the guilt he feels upon seeing the total fear in Ms. Stacy's eyes, he rushes out to summon a surgeon from ESU medical school to perform emergency surgery. The surgery is a success, but the inevitable questions soon arise, and Miles Warren again panics and strangles his colleague, and burns his body in the infamous boiler room incinerator from the original story. But was it Miles Warren who did this...or was it someone else? Someone who couldn't be controlled? Yes...it was the Jackal. Now a murderer, he follows Peter intending to kill him, but sees him change into Spider-man and changes plans.
He slowly nurses Gwen back to health- though she's left with a shuffling gate and slurred speech -and engages in a campaign of harassment of Peter Parker by sending villains to fight Spider-man in the places he frequents as Peter Parker.
Miles Warren plans to eventually confront Peter with a fully recovered Gwen Stacy, but Gwen Escapes from his "care" before his plans reach fruition and seeks out help from Peter Parker. Peter leaves her behind in his apartment and rushes out in a rage to confront Miles Warren, but meets the Jackal instead. The Climactic fight ends as it did before with an explosion and the death of the Jackal. A dazed Spider-man looks up from the rubble to see a shocked Gwen Stacy standing over him. "Peter?" she says. "He called you Peter." He blacks out and when he comes to, Gwen is gone, disappeared into the world.
Now for those of you who actually read this, you're probably asking, "Why didn't he just say, 'the same story but replace the clone angle with a Frankenstein angle'?" And the truth is, I don't know. But it was fun to write it all out, so I guess that's why. Ha!
Edited by Joseph Gauthier on 22 March 2011 at 3:03pm
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17797
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| Posted: 22 March 2011 at 2:56pm | IP Logged | 6
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One word...MYSTERIO!
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Joseph Gauthier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 March 2009
Posts: 1429
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| Posted: 22 March 2011 at 3:04pm | IP Logged | 7
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One word...
And I bet you carry a big stick too!
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6940
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| Posted: 22 March 2011 at 3:05pm | IP Logged | 8
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I definitely fall into the school of thought that the DEATH OF GWEN STACY as an important event in comics has been a bad thing. I think Jason's estimation of the effect of the "Clone Story" is a bit of looking on the bright side of things. Going with the idea that Gwen never died may be a "cop-out", but it's the only way to successfully de-emphasize her death. If they had just brought her back, reintroduced her to the community and used her to triangle off with Peter and MJ, a massive positive shift would occur in terms of keeping Spider-Man in his greatest milieu.
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Jesus Garcia
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Joined: 10 April 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 2414
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| Posted: 22 March 2011 at 3:11pm | IP Logged | 9
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I would have done it this way: the Goblin, intent on giving Spider-Man the hurt, could secretly have stowed the Real Gwen while intending to kill a series of Gwen Lookalikes in front of Peter.
The autopsy would have merely identified Gwen by visual inspection though a witness that knew her. Visual inspection would have been enough, so no dental records or fingerprints would have been needed -- or called for given who her Dad was.
So, in theory, the fact that real Gwen was still alive would not have immediately surfaced upon the Goblin's demise. I'm assuming here that Gwen's prolonged incarceration would not have been lethal and that she could have been rescued at some point or simply freed herself.
Had the Goblin survived, he could have "killed" Gwen in front of Peter over and over again, or used the real Gwen to try and drive Spider-Man insane. The Goblin could have worked it so that each further "Gwen" that was killed, would have her body destroyed or lost -- so no evidence that the first killed Gwen wasn't in fact the real one.
Basically, Ms. Stacy could have been brought back without resorting to sci-fi or fantasy.
Edited by Jesus Garcia on 22 March 2011 at 3:22pm
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John Popa
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Joined: 20 March 2008
Posts: 4692
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| Posted: 22 March 2011 at 3:23pm | IP Logged | 10
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I'd do something along the lines of the Goblin did a switch and the real Gwen was held somewhere until Spidey figured it out and saved the day.
And then you move on and have everyone doing what they did beforehand.
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JT Molloy
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Joined: 19 February 2008
Posts: 2092
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| Posted: 22 March 2011 at 3:54pm | IP Logged | 11
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Reboot! :-D
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5833
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| Posted: 22 March 2011 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | 12
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I definitely fall into the school of thought that the DEATH OF GWEN STACY as an important event in comics has been a bad thing.
**********
SER: I go so far as to say all IMPORTANT EVENTS in superhero comics are bad things -- including the Death of Phoenix. We went decades without IMPORTANT EVENTS but had GREAT STORIES (even the Death of Superman was "imaginary" and not a line in the sand, an event that would forever be referenced by future creators).
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Topic Closed)
