I like superhero characters to be powerful. I like to see them lift up cars, save aeroplanes, grapple with wild animals and throw bad guys around. It's part of the fun in reading/watching them.

However, I don't like characters to be too powerful. Obviously, I want to see some awesome feats of strength in comics/on the screen, but sometimes it can be satisfying when they are powered down, either in comics or on the big screen. It's one of the many things I liked about Mr. Byrne's Superman stories.

I've been watching some episodes of the live-action Hulk series recently. In one early episode ("Of Guilt, Models and Murder"), there's a really gripping and exciting scene where Lou Ferrigno's Hulk has to resist the pressure of a car crusher. The TV Hulk, although not as strong as the comic Hulk, was still very, very strong, but he had his limits. It was a fantastic scene seeing him succeed, but struggle, against the pressure of a car crusher.

I also enjoyed it when the TV Hulk had limitations. In the episode "A Death In The Family", the Hulk struggled as he grappled with a bear. Of course, you know the TV Hulk is going to win, but it's still satisfying seeing him have to struggle against a bear, a gorilla or a car crusher (to name three of my favourite Hulk feats in the series).

I'm guessing that things were a little different in the live-action Hulk series for budgetary reasons and because it was filmed in an era with different types of special effects. I don't know if the series would have had the budget to feature a leaping, flying, very big Hulk fighting tanks and fighter jets each week and there probably wouldn't have been the special effects, anyway. There was one Hulk episode called "Blind Rage" which did feature the Hulk taking on the military, but it was a modest affair compared to the battles the comic Hulk had with the military.

However, I do really like the show and felt that the performances of Bill Bixby, Lou Ferrigno and Jack Colvin were excellent. I love reading the comic Hulk and seeing him throw aeroplanes, leap into the air, etc. It is satisfying, though, when a character is powered down slightly.

I guess my point is that, although I want to read about the exploits of super-powered characters, there's far more satisfaction when the superhero isn't too powerful. I prefer seeing The Thing struggle against a really tough foe; I like to see the Hulk knocked down occasionally; I like to see Superman struggle to resist a large object or push himself to the limits when trying to lift something big or defeat an enemy. It's just more satisfying.

With regards to characters being powered down, either on TV or in comics, does anyone have any thoughts?

I always thought of the TV Hulk being about as strong as the comic-book Spider-Man.

The TV Spider-Man of the same era seemed about as strong as a normal guy.

I didn't really like either of these "de-powerings."

That said, I did like the MOS Superman.

Remember the old Superman stories when Superman was able to push the earth (or another planet) around.

I loved the joke that Peter David did with the Silver age Kara meeting up with his Supergirl Linda, with Silver age Kara trying to move the earth (and just doing a handstand).  Linda then calmly explained all the reasons why this wouldn't work.

Well, the art looks nice.  The idea seems stupid, though. 

If Peter David thought that Kryptonians shouldn't be able to move the Earth then he shouldn't have had them do it in his stories.  He should not have them try and fail just so they can look foolish in the attempt.

I've been decrying the "Bully" Hulk in the current Marvel product for a long time now.

If it was me, I'd take away that whole "gets stronger as get angrier" aspect. The Hulk in RAMPAGING HULK b/w magazine seemed to hew to the television version, at least in the latter part of that mag's run. And it was refreshing to see the Hulk having to work hard to defeat more "mundane" things, like elephants and so on.

Which goes back to the original Hulk stories of Lee/Kirby, where I was always more amazed by the things the Hulk could do that didn't involve holding up a mountain. The Hulk shouldn't be able to hold up a mountain, or defeat Thor hand-to-hand (at least, Thor with his hammer), or survive a full blast of Black Bolt's spoken syllable. In my opinion.

Super-strength is so prevalent that such a scene is viewed as ho-hum. But this Kirby shot shows us what it might be like to push over a wall of brick and mortar. We can identify with that kind of strength, as mentioned with Superman ripping off Lois' car door in the movie. We can't identify with a character who has boundless strength, endurance, and cannot be hurt or killed.

Another of the greatest pages of all time, showing the Hulk doing something amazing in, again, a way we can understand:

More on topic: I totally agree, but that's the nature of drama. If the hero doesn't struggle, there is no fun in victory. Seeing the muscles strain at their limit demonstrates their strength better than a thousand feats of effortlessness.

One good bit of comic book struggle that comes to mind for me is the great Spider-Man story from ASM 33. The length of the struggle makes the victory unforgettable.

With regards to characters being powered down, either on TV or in comics, does anyone have any thoughts?

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I think the effectiveness of the portrayal of a character's power level really depends on the context and what sort of a world the character exists in. To pick 2 examples, one in comics and one in movies:

Superman as originally depicted in the late 30s was nowhere near as strong as he is now, but still the strongest man on Earth. In a universe where he exists along with others with great powers, whether strength or not, he must become more powerful than just the human beings he is surrounded by. He must be SUPERMAN in a world that also contain the Flash, Green lantern and Wonder Woman.

As far as the Hulk goes, the TV version, in addition to being limited by budgets, was still, no matter how less powerful than his comics counterpart he was, the strongest being on Earth. But now, in movies where the Hulk shares the same world with Thor (among others) he needs to be closer to the comics.

On a related note, some of my favorite moments in comcis have been those times when a character, through force of will and determination, rises to something more than their usual level of power to do the almost impossible. Doc Samson knocking out the Hulk might be the best example I can think of at the moment. I love that punch!

I think The Beast has the strongest feets I've ever seen on a superhero.

Wha-wha-wha!

QUOTE: On a related note, some of my favorite moments in comcis have been those times when a character, through force of will and determination, rises to something more than their usual level of power to do the almost impossible. Doc Samson knocking out the Hulk might be the best example I can think of at the moment. I love that punch!

Yeah, that was great. It was so unexpected.

There was a scene in the 1982 Hulk cartoon where the Hulk was trapped underground, I think it was reinforced concrete and steel. At first, he couldn't get out, but later on in the episode, he managed to muster up the strength to break out in order to stop Doctor Octopus.

I guess it is correct that it depends on what context we're talking about. The comic Hulk would have no problem with a car crusher and I'd probably prefer to see him smash through one, but from a live-action perspective, there was something really special seeing Lou Ferrigno's Hulk struggle to resist the pressure of the car crusher.