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Does Marvel Earth seem "strange" to you? Does DC Earth?

The most basic conceit of these fantasy realms is that they are HERE. They just happen to have these super powered beings in them. Super powered beings who have NO EFFECT outside the narrow focus of their own lives. Superman did NOT end World War 2. The constant proof of alien life (usually by means of invasions!) does not bring down civilization as we know it.

Superman and Spider-Man met, and they were clearly on the same planet, the same world, and it was their home world. No one had "crossed over", or in any way needed to. That's primarily because old hands were on the tiller. Stan Lee and Carmine Infantino shepherded that first cross-company crossover*, and they both understood what the book needed to be. And what it DIDN'T need to be -- which was an orgy of fanboy anal retentiveness.

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* Anyone who even MENTIONS the "Wizard of Oz" tabloid will be banned for life!!

I remember my favorite run of Imaginary Stories had to be Superman Jr. and Batman Jr.  They were definitely my favorite Superman/Batman Family stories.  But at that age, I don't think I saw them as "imaginary".  I didn't think of them as part of the mainstream title; but I think I saw them as future stories.

Then DC published a story that totally dissappointed me--they explained that the two Jrs were a computer generated program and all the stories we ever read were "imaginary".  It sortof ruined them for me at the time.  I think I was 14 about that time.

As far as the categorizing of things;  for me, it's how my brain works.  Cateloging is fun.  Before I got into comics, I collected coins.  Grouping them was part of the game. It was the same reason I looked at Star Trek tech manuals or I bought this book that was basically a encylopedia of alien races that didn't appear any other than in this book; no story, just data.  (That is, it wasn't even a catalogue of Trek or Star Wars or other published works.  I still have that book 30 plus years later.

That stuff is fun, even to my kid brain.

"I began reading SUPERMAN more than a hundred issues into the run. Yet, by the end of the first issue -- heck, by the end of the first STORY -- I knew who everybody was, and what their relationships were. Today, how many American superhero comics can make such a claim? "

My four year old knows who MODOK is. He knows that Loki is Thor's brother and Odin is his dad. He knows the Galactus is the Silver Surfer's boss and that Nova is his co-worker. He knows Wolverine is all of his different outfits, including street clothes. He knows that the Watcher is only kind of a good guy because he never fights the bad guys. He knows Havok and Cyclops are brothers. He knows Iron Fist.  He knows both black and white Nick Fury.He knows that Ka-Zar is like Tarzan. He knows that nothing can stop the Juggernaut.

He knows a lot, yet he has never read a comic book by himself.  I don't know hat this says about the comic books industry, but I think it says something about the times.

I like alternate earths and parallel universes in fiction (such as the Mirror Universe in STAR TREK). With superhero comics, I wouldn't be opposed to a story where Superman ends up on another earth where things are quite different.

Where I don't like it is when I hear questions that didn't need to be asked. I used to groan whenever I heard people asking which earth the Superman/Spider-Man crossovers took place on and how it fits into the overall continuity. At no time during those crossovers did I ever wonder about the mechanics of it all, I just enjoyed the adventures on their own terms.

Same when Spider-Man encountered the Transformers. I didn't wonder what earth it was taking place on or how the Transformers adventures fits into Marvel continuity. It just happened.

I guess my point is that when you have stories where a lot of it is taken up with explaining the whys and hows of superheroes encountering, it kind of takes the fun out of it (and doesn't lend itself well to street characters such as Batman or Captain America, anyway). It ruins it slightly for me - there's far more awe and excitement in believing that Superman and Spider-Man share the same earth, in much the same way they did when I drew pictures of them as a kid or played with DC and Marvel toys.

I just wonder, if the Superman/Spider-Man crossover was taking place for the first time today, would it be a mini-series of 5 parts, the first 2 dealing with them crossing over from their respective universes, the next 2 having them meet and then the final part dealing with them going back to their universes? Personally, I prefer the fact that they just met.

Brian, I have to ask why it is that you can always, without fail, find the contrary position on nearly every single question, debate or argument.  After reading your responses in many threads, I'm thinking you're one of those people who loves to be an auto-contrarian.  Just about anyone can posit something and no matter what it is, you'll take the opposite position. 

Take your response here.  Whereas John did not grow up in a household that read comics or even had comic book fans, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you are, correct? I mean, you post on the board of a comic book author and artist.  Is it any wonder then that simply being around you informs what your son does and doesn't know?  Even if you aren't sitting him down and actually telling him everything, you watch, read about and purchase comic book themed materials.  You, then, are the exception to the rule in a mainstream superhero marketplace that is seeing comic shops closing, some towns with no access to shops at all, and sales of a monthly comic books being touted at 100,000 sales.  Add on top of that the heart of what John is talking about: the notion that by the end of a single comic book he knew who all the players were and their relationships to the main character and decidedly not that your son knows a random collection of characters based on...?  I don't know because you didn't specify.  You didn't give a 1:1 but decided to once again be an auto-contrarian and rattle off a list of characters your son knows without supplying any context as a way to take the opposite position. 

I can tell you from recent personal experience that what JB says is true.  I tried a single issue of the new Spider-Woman series.  The first issue, mind you.  At the end of it, I had to come here to ask what her origin was, what her relationship was to several of the characters mentioned in the issue, and basically what was going on with her in the first place.  That first issue gave me nothing, in context, in order to appreciate who she was and why I should care, so that was the last issue I bought.  That's the heart of what John is saying and what I have experienced many times over the last 15 years: comics that take little or no time to set up the basics and expect everyone reading to either know the score or spend time looking elsewhere for information they should be getting in the book they just purchased.

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Sean, I get the impression that editor's notes were abandoned
because either they've made the continuity so convoluted, they don't
know where to steer you or that they've have contradicted there own
continuity at some point and don't want to draw attention to the
mistake and that there picking and choosing from them while
disregarding the rest. Also, despite there length, most readers
remember comics by the particular stories. 25 years ago, if an editor
noted something that happened in a story 60 issues ago, 20 different
stories may have been told in that time. That's a lot of different stories
for a reader to wade thru. Now that same 60 issues will get you
maybe 8 stories, and it's easier to recall prior info.

It saddens me that they are gone. I've gone and checked out more
good stories from editor's notes than I care to mention. Also, from a
business perspective, it really inhibits a comic shop's ability to move
back issues.