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Brian Hague
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Posted: 06 March 2011 at 1:09am | IP Logged | 1  

Michael, please forgive the contradiction, but I can recall another issue, 1977's "How To Prevent a Flash," wherein Barry more-or-less "daydreams" the entire story in the blink of an eye before acting to prevent what he thinks might happen if he doesn't.

It took place in Five-Star Super-Hero Spectacular, the first issue of DC's Special Series, and features the short-lived debut and career (blink of an eye) of Ms. Flash.

Flash #128 may be Flash's only Silver-Age imaginary story, however.

 

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Michael Andrew Gonoude
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Posted: 06 March 2011 at 1:24am | IP Logged | 2  

Sorry, Brian, I thought the Silver Age distinction was implied.  I have since, however, thought of another possibility: "The Real Origin of the Flash", The Flash Vol. I, #167 (Feb. 1967), but it's not Imaginary, it was so universally poorly received (despite the staggeringly beautiful Infantino/Giella wash cover portrait of its hero) that it has since been, by unanimous acclaimation, retroactively removed from continuity. In short, it never happened!

Edited by Michael Andrew Gonoude on 06 March 2011 at 11:40am
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 06 March 2011 at 1:52am | IP Logged | 3  

Yeah, I know that story never happened, and I'm all sad and Mopee about it... :-)

Sorry if I misunderstood your earlier post, Michael. I think it was the phrase "To date,..." that threw me.

 

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Agapito Qhelas
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Posted: 06 March 2011 at 4:41am | IP Logged | 4  


 QUOTE:
Crisis just confused me. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and the
Justice League were getting retellings or remained origins but not
everything else did. Was the DC Universe getting a reboot or not? I
might have been able to wrap my head around it but Wally West as
the Flash remembering the death of Barry completely confused me. To
this day, I still can't figure out how it all fits together or if it even did.

Wally remembered Barry's death because Crisis did happen, but the heroes remembered it differently; there were no Infinite Earth and the Anti-Monitor's objective was to destroy the single positive matter universe. But no one remembered Kara's death because there was no Supergirl. It was a big horrible mess.

Crisis started DC's absolutely bizarre approach to continuity where some things remain part of the continuity while others are discarded. Take JB's Man of Steel miniseries, Superman's origin has been redone twice since then, but some parts of Man of Steel are still in continuity.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 06 March 2011 at 6:09am | IP Logged | 5  

Crisis just confused me. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and the Justice League were getting retellings or remained origins but not everything else did. Was the DC Universe getting a reboot or not? I might have been able to wrap my head around it but Wally West as the Flash remembering the death of Barry completely confused me. To this day, I still can't figure out how it all fits together or if it even did.

••

Any number of things scuttled CRISIS. First, it was poorly conceived and poorly executed. The original plan, to do a "history" of the DCU, blow everything up in the last issue, and then start over with all new first issues the next month, would have at least had a hope of working better. That would have been an editorial fiat, rather than a "story event".

But, even there, there would have been the problem of people who wanted to have their Kate, and Edith too. CRISIS defined itself as a self-erasing event. The fact that it happened, meant that it didn't happen. But the Psycho-Pirate "remembered" it happening, and right away that meant it hadn't worked.

Plus, any time a "rule" is introduced, no matter how benign or benevolent, there will be people who will ignore it, deliberately in some cases.

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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 06 March 2011 at 8:19am | IP Logged | 6  

I don't recall any "imaginary stories" appearing in titles other than the Superman and Batman ones, so it's nice to know other heroes had their own "imaginary stories", too.

With regards to CRISIS, I do like the art, but there's not much in the story that appeals to me. Haven't there been other stories since about the CRISIS? I don't ready many current DC titles, but I'd have been more willing to if I hadn't seen the word "CRISIS" listed in so many modern titles.

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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 06 March 2011 at 11:52am | IP Logged | 7  

The notion (more like a compulsion) that every story has to "count" or have taken place on some alternate Earth has gotten so bad at DC that the new Young Justice cartoon has been establish as taking place on one of the 52 alternate Earth's.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 06 March 2011 at 12:02pm | IP Logged | 8  

Rick, you're right, it has gotten bad. Why are they even concerned with what earth it takes place on?

I don't mind alternate earth stories or parallel universes in comics - such as in "Flash of Two Worlds" - but I can't understand the need for cataloguing and letting fans know what earth a particular series or adventure is taking place on.

Something like "Flash of Two Worlds" was just fun. Like "imaginary stories" it can be enjoyed on it's own terms; the Superman/Spider-Man crossovers can be enjoyed on their own terms; and Spider-Man's encounter with The Transformers can be enjoyed on their own terms. I see no need for cataloguing or anyone concerning themselves with where it all fits in, what earth each adventure is taking place on, etc. Aren't comics mean to be just fun rathe than an intellectual exercise?

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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 06 March 2011 at 12:05pm | IP Logged | 9  

The notion that "homework" is required in order to read modern comics is deeply ingrained. I have actually heard retailers telling potential new readers that they must -- MUST! -- read copious numbers of back issues before embarking on some new storyline or series.

___________________________________

What's even more troubling and frustrating is that there are a lot of fans out there (mostly on the internet) who are steadfast against each issue of a comic containing info that will help new readers become familiar with the characters and ease into the story. These selfish fans say that they are tired of reading the same info each issue, since they already know this stuff, and that any new fan can find out everything about the characters in the comics by going online and looking the info up themselves.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 06 March 2011 at 12:10pm | IP Logged | 10  

What's even more troubling and frustrating is that there are a lot of fans out there (mostly on the internet) who are steadfast against each issue of a comic containing info that will help new readers become familiar with the characters and ease into the story. These selfish fans say that they are tired of reading the same info each issue, since they already know this stuff, and that any new fan can find out everything about the characters in the comics by going online and looking the info up themselves.

••

Precisely the kinds of readers many writers are deliberately pandering to these days, "writing for the trade". And, thus, closing yet another door in the face of potential new readers.

To me, knowing that so much of my work these days is going to be collected in "evergreens" like trades and hardcover volumes, it becomes part of the challenge (and therefore part of the FUN) to find ways to include elements that will bring new readers up to speed without it seeming like redundant exposition.

"Challenge", alas, is a word many modern writers don't know, or resent if they do.

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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 06 March 2011 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | 11  

"Challenge", alas, is a word many modern writers don't know, or resent if they do.

________________________________

And many modern editors are more than happy to make sure that these modern writers (especially the popular and critically celebrated writers) don't have any "challenges" at all.

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Mason Meomartini
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Posted: 06 March 2011 at 2:47pm | IP Logged | 12  

I like "imaginary stories" as well as the alternate universe idea.  With science fictions fans here I'm sure you all like the latter concept as well, but it seems the majority if not all here prefer the imaginary story treatment of Marvel/DC crossovers, or the simple and elegant "assume they always coexisted" approach.  I'm interested in understanding why that is.  If it's the complicated details that writers bring up when making them separate realities, and labeling or numbering universes, couldn't any Marvel/DC story be done just like "The Flash of Two Worlds".  Alternate universes, but done with simplicity, in a way new readers can understand, and a lot of fun for fans of multiple universes (assuming in this case that it's not taken as far as the tedious detail of the DC Multiverse).

Couldn't it be done to work both ways?  Personally I can't decide which I prefer.  I love the way the Hulk just showed up on the outskirts of Metropolis in the first Spider-Man/Superman story.  It was the first time he'd ever gone that far in the US.  That's it.  That's all they needed to say.  I loved the Batman/Captain America story for the same reason, the conceit that Marvel and DC characters have always existed side by side.

But I loved the way Busiek handled it too in AVENGERS/JLA.  It made each world seem so strange when viewed from the eyes of the other world's characters.  This second approach is more complicated than the first, but it's not as if readers of the superhero genre will be thrown off by the science fiction concept of alternate universes.


Edited by Grant Di Palma on 06 March 2011 at 2:50pm
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