| Author |
|
Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10934
|
| Posted: 27 January 2011 at 6:26pm | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
John, seriously? I thought 182 was the best issue of Miller's first run! The Kingpin asking Daredevil if he was ill? The awesomely creepy ending? Brilliant! We all have different opinions, but I also found that the art became more interesting when Janson took over (from Miller's breakdowns, we assume, based on the info provided in a letter column at the time). I also dug how the art stayed consistant after Miller left. Made a nice transition. Shame about what followed that, though!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Rick Senger
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9664
|
| Posted: 27 January 2011 at 7:55pm | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
Chad, DD 208 was one of the ones I mentioned in my post, though I obviously had the numbering way off saying it was in the 220s or 230s... great, cinematic DD story and a fave of mine as well.
Tony and John P., I agree that 181 may be the peak of Miller's first run, but for me Miller's slide really didn't begin until like 187 or 188. As Mike pointed out, 182 is a keeper as is the Punisher story in 183 and 184 (slightly cliched in spots but full of noir goodness and partly by the self-same ramblin' Roger Mckenzie you fondly cited.) The art just seemed to get more sloppy all of a sudden a little later (probably when Miller's breakdowns got rougher.)
Mike, I appreciated your analysis of DD as a crime book and a unique kind of superhero book. It definitely has a different feel from other comics and long has, even before Miller's archetypal overhaul changed DD forever. Miller took a lot of dramatic steps to shake up DD's personal life (Black Widow leaving him, Elektra betraying him then getting murdered, Heather dying, Karen Page selling him out for a fix), but DD had been a relatively morose character pretty much from the middle of the Colan run forward despite the occasional wisecracks. It was often not a happy ending for DD, like when he ruined the political career of Foggy's inlaw, or busted Heather's father (who then committed sucide I believe?) or ran the storefront law practice into the ground, or accidentally caused the death of the Masked Marauder (for a while anyway) and Death Stalker.
In most comics there is a comforting sameness. In The Flash you can read an issue in the Broome/Infantino run or the Bates/Novick run a decade or two later (except for the last few years) and there isn't much change in Barry's life. The same in Superman. I liked the reassuring normalcy for those characters, like ageless friends you could visit and a home you could return to again and again despite what Thomas Wolfe said.
That wasn't the case through much of the DD run where there was real change and real consequences in DD's life / actions. It wasn't a "safe" read... bad things could and did happen and no character was immune, including DD. I liked that, too, obviously, having collected all of the first 25 plus years.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Gary Olson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 September 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 382
|
| Posted: 27 January 2011 at 8:05pm | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
How about the Lee-Kirby FF two-parter of the '60s, in which the foursome have lost their powers and Dr. Doom just happens to regain his memory and attack the Baxter Building, "And A Blind Man Shall Lead Them" ? DD leads a befuddled FF through the carnage, making them look like galahs, and does it with style and guts. Wally Wood's figure inks on Kirby's DD didn't hurt, either.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Francesco Vanagolli
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 June 2005
Location: Italy
Posts: 3130
|
| Posted: 28 January 2011 at 3:04am | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
I appreciated Mike's point of view on Ann Nocenti, but of course I'm not gonna change my mind about her run.
No problems with Matt as a lawyer for the poor men. In that moment, being himself poor and without a steady job, it seemed a logical thing.
But the one thing I really despise, no, I HATE, is her neverending critic to the whole world with no positive proposal. Do you think everything is bad and rotten, Ms. Nocenti? Alright. Now, could you explain me how do you think the world could be better? Any suggestions? I'll be glad to hear those.
I preferred her writing on the Longshot miniseries, where her usual social critics (on mass media) appeared almost funny. Hey, Mojo was a great character!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
James Revilla
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2266
|
| Posted: 28 January 2011 at 3:08am | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
I love the issue, pretty sure it had a JB cover where DD and Bullseye fight in a gym and BB throws a sai at Daredevil. He catches it and tosses it back, Bullseye says "Nice shot, I would have aimed for the heart." Daredevil says "I did, I missed." Gave me chills as a kid.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Glenn Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3095
|
| Posted: 28 January 2011 at 3:14am | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
DD #181 is one of the single best comic books EVER IMHO. Like Uncanny X-Men #137 and Superman Vs Muhammad Ali, it's on my Best Ever List in perpetuity. DD #161...I believe this is the issue written from reporter Ben Urich's POV (won't spoil it for you) is also a very well-crafted story. The aforementioned #7 where he fights Namor against all odds is also a character-defining issue.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7707
|
| Posted: 28 January 2011 at 5:12am | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
While I really like Millar's original run, I thought it had moments taht showed he still needed to mature as a writer - gangs in the sewers etc. By Born Again he'd matured, delivered Ronin and Dark Knight Returns and the script / pacing were just perfect. Mazzuchelli's art also had matured from when he first joined the comic. So many scenes that I think are great in that run but special praise for the the end of the second (Or is it the first? So long since I've read it) issue - Matt's internal speech after his house is brought down where he figures it's the Kingpin - just beautiful. Nocenti's run I felt only hit its stride once JRjr joined. Yes there was lots of weird stuff going on but the context allowed me to follow it. And hey, the only person to write Typhoid Mary in a way that I care about.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Aaron Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 10461
|
| Posted: 28 January 2011 at 7:25am | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
Daredevil is a character that I've always wanted to like more than I ever actually had. When I started reading comics, DD was in the Miller/Mazzuchelli period and the issues I read blew me away. But at the time I was a kid with limited comics money and never managed to read DD every month (that honor was reserved for my 2 favorites, Spider-Man and Cap). With later runs, I tried to get into DD with Nocenti and then Kessel but never stuck around too long. Going back to early DD with ESSENTIALS, I found the earliest stories to be OK, but not the best of early Marvel. I think my favorite Daredevil of the years before Miller is Gene Colan's version.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Tim O Neill
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10932
|
| Posted: 28 January 2011 at 7:47am | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
My brother had Frank Miller's first issue of Daredevil with some issues after that, so I started collecting during his run and followed it throughout. It's remained some of my favorite comic books - I think he captured the characters just perfectly.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10934
|
| Posted: 28 January 2011 at 10:54am | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
James, that was issue #200.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Craig Markley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3969
|
| Posted: 28 January 2011 at 11:16am | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
I had a subscription to DD that started prior to Miller's great run. I thought Bullseye was a great foe.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Pedro Bouça
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1465
|
| Posted: 28 January 2011 at 2:24pm | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
I have the same reserves as Francesco with respect to Ann Nocenti's run. Way too panfletary for my taste.
The Harlan Ellison "House of Traps" issue is brillant!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Topic Closed)
