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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17699
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| Posted: 20 January 2011 at 8:20am | IP Logged | 1
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Real spiders don't have a spider sense, at least as far as we know.---Spider-
Man's "Spider Sense" was meant to reflect the way certain bugs - due to the
way their eyes provide them with a much wider range of view - seem to
sense and avoid danger.[JB beat me to it.]
Edited by Wallace Sellars on 20 January 2011 at 8:21am
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 20 January 2011 at 8:39am | IP Logged | 2
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Boy sells his fluid for fun and profit? Wotta concept !
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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 20 January 2011 at 8:42am | IP Logged | 3
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JB wrote:
| As to the "spider-sense" -- try to swat a spider and see how fast it it scurries out of the way. That's the advantage to all those body hairs and eight eyes, of course, but Stan and Steve merely literalized it into something else. |
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Yup; spiders can detect changes in air currents, including those created by sound waves. I don't know if that's how Spider-Man's power works, but it could be. In any case, it's not nearly as much of a stretch as natural webbing.
Also, (and this is perhaps putting too much thought into it) I always thought of Peter's body as having adapted as many characteristics of the spider that as was possible (without being transformed into a spider), or credible for a human body to adapt, then convert or "translate" them to something a human body could use. Logically, this wouldn't seem to include biological webbing (or 8 eyes, or venom, or pedipalps, etc), especially given the nature of the biological webbing seen in the movie.
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Dan Avenell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 March 2008
Posts: 1038
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| Posted: 20 January 2011 at 8:45am | IP Logged | 4
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Let's ignore that what came first was Lee & Ditkos idea for a 'Spider-Man' and the origin was invented to make that happen - in Peter Parker's world the radiated spider-bite gave him special powers that are similar to some things we associate with spiders, mostly the walking on walls bit. The theme he chose, and the web-shooters he invented was inspired or influenced by that bite, or what would work in show-biz, but he didn't get eight arms, organic webbing, eight eyes etc. But he could have just as 'easily' built some kind of mechanical tail and called himself the Human Gecko.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 20 January 2011 at 8:46am | IP Logged | 5
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I always thought of Peter's body as having adapted as many characteristics of the spider that as was possible (without being transformed into a spider), or credible for a human body to adapt, then convert or "translate" them to something a human body could use. Logically, this wouldn't seem to include biological webbing (or 8 eyes, or venom, or pedipalps, etc), especially given the nature of the biological webbing seen in the movie.•• Exactly right. Those who insist biological webbing is a "good idea" have yet to explain why the mutational effect conveniently stopped before giving Parker eight eyes, and eight limbs!
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Jon Stafford
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 December 2010
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| Posted: 20 January 2011 at 8:52am | IP Logged | 6
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QUOTE:
| Neither does Spider-Man. That was something Shooter forced Mark Gruenwald to include in the original OHOTMU, against howls of complaint from just about everyone who'd ever even heard of Spider-Man. Shooter was under the mistaken impression that spider's "stick" to walls, which he declared to be "icky" (his word) and so he came up with this "solution". |
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Heh. That's interesting. Ah, the lowly origins of lofty ideas, eh? Nevertheless, Spider-Man had demonstrated the ability to cling to surfaces with more than just his hands and feet, which real spiders cannot do. He has also used the clinging power offensively by adhering to something and tearing away portions of it, another ability beyond the scope of real spiders. So however his clinging power works, it is not the same as a real spider's. Ditto the spider sense. In fact, Spider-Man's powers seem to duplicate the function of a spider's abilities, but not their biological method. So I would still say there's no reason to assume that if he had "real" webbing it would necessarily operate the way a normal spider's does. But it's still a colossally dumb idea!
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 20 January 2011 at 9:28am | IP Logged | 7
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In fact, Spider-Man's powers seem to duplicate the function of a spider's abilities, but not their biological method. So I would still say there's no reason to assume that if he had "real" webbing it would necessarily operate the way a normal spider's does.
***********
SER: If Spider-Man had been created with biological webbing, I would be more willing to suspend disbelief. He was not. He had mechanical web shooters -- a cool gadget that I always liked about the character.
Raimi changed this because he thought it wasn't "realistic" and then replaced it with something that made less sense. If you change something that existed in the comics for 40 years without issue in the interests of "realism," then you have to replace it with something that makes sense.
The argument has also been made that there was narrative simplicity to just making the webbing part of his powers. OK. I can almost see that but it would take about 5 minutes to add into the film -- about as long as Raimi spent showing us a Peter Parker dumb enough to think that "Shazam" and "Go Webs Go!" would summon the webs.
It's also uncertain, without mechanical webshooters, why Spider-Man makes the classic "web-shooter" pose when triggering the webs. It makes no biological sense.
Advocates of the biological webbing claim that its presence did not alter the commercial success of the film. My response to that is that neither would mechanical webbing. I think the audience was willing to suspend disbelief. And mechanical webbing actually gives us a Peter Parker who is a genius rather than just a mopey, lovesick nerd.
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Jon Stafford
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| Posted: 20 January 2011 at 9:38am | IP Logged | 8
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Oh, I agree with you 100%, Stephen. The biological webbing was a terrible idea. It was just one of the many things that are wrong with that movie. I was just being an annoying detail geek when I said IF he had biological webbing it would not necessarily have to work the same way a real spider's webbing works. That's all.
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Keith Thomas
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Joined: 06 April 2009
Location: United States
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| Posted: 20 January 2011 at 12:10pm | IP Logged | 9
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First, the webbing Spider-Man uses in the comics is ARTIFICIAL. It doesn't work like real spider webbing, and so can be anything the writer(s) need it to be
Which it has to. Raimi's Spider-Man should have left the city covered in webbing, anyone with a basement full of spiders knows that stuff stays around forever.
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Francesco Vanagolli
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 June 2005
Location: Italy
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| Posted: 20 January 2011 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | 10
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JB's thoughts on organical webs are confirmed by a recent story: in One more day Peter uses his organical web against Iron Man, thinking something like "I have to use all of it". Peter covers Iron Man with a lot of web... and it seems that he cannot produce more of it till he recovered a while.
Producing so much of organical material from your own body gives you some physical stress, I suppose (no jokes on this, please!).
Edited by Francesco Vanagolli on 20 January 2011 at 12:12pm
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Dan Avenell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 March 2008
Posts: 1038
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| Posted: 20 January 2011 at 12:28pm | IP Logged | 11
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Are there any other super-heroes that squirt their own bodily fluids at their enemies?
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Wayde Murray
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 October 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 3115
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| Posted: 20 January 2011 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | 12
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Johnny Storm once burned through ropes holding a de-powered Reed Richards with some flaming spit. Other than that, I got nothing.
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