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Topic: Could Spider-Man sell his web-fluid and become rich? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 21 January 2011 at 11:34am | IP Logged | 1  

As a teenage genius, still in high school or early college, it's perfectly acceptable to see Peter as someone of genius level who has the potential to (in a future that the comics should never reach) become a Reed Richards or a Hank Pym.

***

Just like Lee-Ditko had named Spider-Man the fourth strongest Marvel superhero, behind Thor, the Hulk, and the Thing, but simultaneously noted that he was yet only a teenager (this being when time still passed in the comic about the same as in real life) and therefore sure to increase in strength as he matured -- I have no problem rather similarly considering Peter Parker a genius (not merely budding) by any definition and yet also demonstrably lacking the years of study and experience of Reed Richards et al.




Edited by Michael Penn on 21 January 2011 at 11:35am
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 21 January 2011 at 11:39am | IP Logged | 2  

…doing the double finger tap on the palm to release the web fluid…

••

Another rather foolish retcon! Too many people started asking "how can he make a fist without spraying webbing, if the firing button is in his palm?"

There MUST have been a better answer than "He has to tap twice". In the heat and ferocious speed of battle, even the fraction of a second between taps could have meant the difference between life and death!

+++++++++

Of course, in the origin story, it's said that the web-shooters "will operate at the slightest pressure of any finger"! But there's gotta be some kind of clever way to avoid accidential firings.

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Jesus Garcia
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Posted: 21 January 2011 at 12:20pm | IP Logged | 3  

Logically, Peter should not deliver the inventions that he uses as Spider-Man to the public. Think about how the Batmobile design in Dark Knight gave away the possible identity of The Batman.

That being said, genius and invention do not necessarily run in the same direction with most people. Part of what makes Peter so special is that he can channel his genius along inventive lines as a particular need arises. He needed a costume, he made one; he needed a special web, he made one; he needed a tracing device, he made one; he needed to reverse the effects of Connors Lizard potion, he did it; etc, etc, etc.

It is perhaps a blind spot of the mind of the Lee & Ditko Peter Parker that prevented him from seeing that his and Aunt May's poverty was a problem to be addressed in the same way as his Spider-Man problems. Odd, given that Spider-Man was created to capitalize financially on his newfound powers, or perhaps a lingering guilt over his Uncle's death.

It's odd how the "Great Power / Great Responsibility" mindset applied to perfect strangers but not as much to the woman that effectively raised him. Who is to say what would have occurred had Ditko stayed on board as long a Kirby did on FF. Seems like he was doing most of the plotting in his last 18 months on the book.

I'd be willing to bet that given Ditko's Randian tendencies, that Peter would have sooner or later started thinking of his own personal welfare and that of his aunt before very long.

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Matt Reed
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Posted: 21 January 2011 at 12:45pm | IP Logged | 4  

 Jesus Garcia wrote:
It's odd how the "Great Power / Great Responsibility" mindset applied to perfect strangers but not as much to the woman that effectively raised him.

I don't think that's true at all.  Peter did everything in his power to protect Aunt May, to help her whenever she needed it.  He felt an overwhelming sense of responsibility for her particularly in light of the events that led to his Uncle's death.  I don't think not selling the web shooter/web fluid invention is any indication that he felt less responsibility toward his Aunt.  That he didn't spend precious hours, days, weeks or months perfecting the fluid so that it was permanent to make it potentially more marketable, thus taking him away from fighting crime and helping others, isn't an indication that he put the needs of strangers ahead of immediate family.  To me, it's an entirely different character that would start "thinking of his own personal welfare and that of his aunt before very long".  That's the character that went into the ring for money, that was becoming a television star and who ultimately couldn't be bothered with stopping the villain who ended up murdering his uncle. 

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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 21 January 2011 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | 5  

 Jesus Garcia wrote:
It is perhaps a blind spot of the mind of the Lee & Ditko Peter Parker that prevented him from seeing that his and Aunt May's poverty was a problem to be addressed in the same way as his Spider-Man problems. Odd, given that Spider-Man was created to capitalize inancially on his newfound powers{snip}
Who is to say what would have occurred had Ditko stayed on board as long a Kirby did on FF. Seems like he was doing most of the plotting in his last 18 months on the book.


Ditko did all the plotting on his final 13 issues of the book.  Probably even earlier, but issue #26 is where he starts receiving credit as sole plotter.  It's likely that after the first few issues he was doing the lion's share of the plotting.

And Peter doesn't apply his scientific genius to earn as much money as he can for the same reason Superman doesn't stop war and cure cancer.  Superman is more interesting if he lives in the real world, not an alternate universe where there is no war or disease.  Likewise, Spider-Man is more interesting if he lives a normal teenager life with real everyday problems.  Both those things should just be accepted and ignored.  Trying to explain them just draws attention to them and is pointless.


Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 21 January 2011 at 12:50pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 21 January 2011 at 12:57pm | IP Logged | 6  

Peter doesn't apply his scientific genius to earn as much money as he can for the same reason Superman doesn't stop war and cure cancer. Superman is more interesting if he lives in the real world, not an alternate universe where there is no war or disease. Likewise, Spider-Man is more interesting if he lives a normal teenager life with real everyday problems. Both those things should just be accepted and ignored. Trying to explain them just draws attention to them and is pointless.

••

The most simple and basic conceit of these gaudy little pamphlets, and yet the one which seems to elude so many, fans and pros alike!!

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Joel Tesch
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Posted: 21 January 2011 at 1:57pm | IP Logged | 7  

It is perhaps a blind spot of the mind of the Lee & Ditko Peter Parker that prevented him from seeing that his and Aunt May's poverty was a problem to be addressed in the same way as his Spider-Man problems.

It wasn't a blind spot at all. Peter was constantly struggling to protect and provide for Aunt May. And the selling of his web fluid was SOMETHING HE TRIED AND IT DIDN'T WORK. Stan and Steve showed this specifically. So to continue to harp on why him now doing this equated him ignoring his aunt's plight is ludicrous.

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 21 January 2011 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | 8  

Trying to explain them [comicbook conceits] just draws attention to them and is pointless.

***

Child readers don't want to explain them, and adult readers shouldn't want to. Everybody else should drop this hobby and take up pinochle.

++++++++

Ditko did all the plotting on his final 13 issues of the book.  Probably even earlier, but issue #26 is where he starts receiving credit as sole plotter.  It's likely that after the first few issues he was doing the lion's share of the plotting.

***

I wonder about that, Jason, although of course I don't know what actually happened. Having recently re-read ASM from the start to Romita's debut, I think that the issues where Ditko is credited as the sole plotter are markedly different in pacing, tone, action, etc. from those before. And when Stan took over the writing again, I felt like I was "coming home" the story style of those initial dozen issues.
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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 21 January 2011 at 2:39pm | IP Logged | 9  

Yeah, I'm just guessing about the plotting, you could be right.  It seems probable to me that Ditko did the lion's share of the plotting (perhaps even all of it) on the issues immediately preceding #26 because it seems unlikely that Stan would just suddenly give him free reign to take over completely with #26.  It seems more likely that Ditko's role built up gradually to the point where he was doing all the plotting, so then he demanded and was given credit starting with #26. 
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Jesus Garcia
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Posted: 21 January 2011 at 4:33pm | IP Logged | 10  

Joel Tesch

It is perhaps a blind spot of the mind of the Lee & Ditko Peter Parker that prevented him from seeing that his and Aunt May's poverty was a problem to be addressed in the same way as his Spider-Man problems.

It wasn't a blind spot at all. Peter was constantly struggling to protect and provide for Aunt May. And the selling of his web fluid was SOMETHING HE TRIED AND IT DIDN'T WORK. Stan and Steve showed this specifically. So to continue to harp on why him now doing this equated him ignoring his aunt's plight is ludicrous.

***

A shame you quote me in your response without actually reading what I wrote. As you say, ludicrous.

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Robert White
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Posted: 21 January 2011 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | 11  

The concept is meaningless (Parker selling his web fluid)
unless this sort of real world logic is applied ACROSS
THE BOARD when it comes to all superheroes. It never is.

Besides, Peter tried the "use my powers to make money"
concept from the start. How did that work out for him? It
would be hard for him to sell it and or market it without
revealing his identity to at least a few corporate higher
ups. Another factor.

Let's not forget that in a world that has Reed Richards
and Tony Starks, that an invention by an unknown, no
matter how clever, isn't the golden ticket it might be in
in OUR world.

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Jesus Garcia
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Posted: 21 January 2011 at 5:27pm | IP Logged | 12  

Robert White - I agree with you, about the pitfalls of selective logic.

The point is, however, that Peter failed to make money off Spider-Man as Spider-Man. Peter could invent something as Peter Parker and sell it as a Peter Parker (boy genius) invention -- with no apparent connection to Spider-Man. The Lee & Ditko certainly run paints him as intelligent and resourceful enough to accomplish this.

It's a though Lee & Ditko gave him enough brains to use his brains to get out of Spider-Man trouble but not enough brains to get out of Peter Parker troubles.

Of course, this could be deliberate subtext: perhaps Lee & Ditko wanted Peter to be more confident as Spider-Man then as plain old Peter Parker -- momentarily preventing him from tapping into his potential and succeed materially in his civilian identity.

This makes me think of the 60's Spider-Man cartoon: when Peter's voice came across as meek as Parker and more assertive as Spider-Man. I never got such a Clark Kent/Superman vibe from the Lee & Ditko run. Makes me wonder where the producers of the cartoon got the idea. They might have settled for the voice actor using a different pitch, but they went as far as giving Peter a different demeanor when acting as Peter -- except in the privacy of his room.
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