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Brian Joseph Mayer
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Joined: 10 December 2009
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Posted: 29 December 2010 at 4:23pm | IP Logged | 1  

"My question is how long will the media keep falling for these "stories"?"

The media has been reporting on non-stories, or entertainment news, for a long time. Why would anyone expect it to stop? On a slow news day, when a paper has a few inches to fill.

And as far as the book not selling on newsstands...well find me a newsstand...

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Simon Bucher-Jones
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Posted: 30 December 2010 at 5:24am | IP Logged | 2  

Hickman's been doing a reasonable job patching and fixing the rubbish from Miller's run, but in so doing he hasn't really told a single satisfactory story of his own yet.

Multiple world Mr Fantastics devalue ours?  Clear them all away forever and establish why ours in a better person check!  FF need to be resestablished as proactive explorers?...explore things check! NuEarth devalues ours by replacing it in nigh certain future? being sorted out now. Future Galactus dead? being sorted out now!

Any of the above actually well characterised and ended with actual endings?....not so much!  3 story line looks dire?....yes, pretty much!

Over-reliance on next gen FF, Valeria and Franklin....yes.

Its a 5/10 mix for me, so I'm occasionally buying it. I bought 586 which was okay but scrappy, failing to unify the 4 disparate threats, one of which in 587 is going to do in somebody (sigh).

Simon BJ

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Simon Bucher-Jones
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Posted: 30 December 2010 at 5:29am | IP Logged | 3  

I just miss JB's humane and intelligent Reed, the one who didn't neglect his family and wasn't out-thought by anyone. [Yes I know, but I read JB's first and Lee and Kirby's Reed is slightly too 'two-fisted' for me, even though I can see Hickman's is shaded to that model, with his 'telling off of the faint-hearted scientists etc' - which I think Reed would have been intelligent enough to do via 'subtle convincing' rather than 'dressing down'. [Sorry forget issue number 580 something].

Simon BJ 

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Don Zomberg
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Posted: 30 December 2010 at 8:43am | IP Logged | 4  

What slays me is you can find fans whining that this latest "death" won't be permanent--serious FF fans complaining that one member of the team WILL come back to life at some point. It's bad enough when Marvel and DC trash their properties in some headline grabbing event, only to have fans bitch when said trashing doesn't become the new status quo (Spider-Man revealing his identity to the world, Bruce Wayne back from the dead, etc).
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John Byrne
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Posted: 30 December 2010 at 10:47am | IP Logged | 5  

What slays me is you can find fans whining that this latest "death" won't be permanent--serious FF fans complaining that one member of the team WILL come back to life at some point. It's bad enough when Marvel and DC trash their properties in some headline grabbing event, only to have fans bitch when said trashing doesn't become the new status quo (Spider-Man revealing his identity to the world, Bruce Wayne back from the dead, etc).

••

These are the ennui-engorged fanboys who have pretty much ruined the game, since they have largely taken over the PRODUCTION of the work, as well as the consumption.

One of the signature characteristics of these pinheads is that they have lost all connection to the fans they themselves used to be. They have forgotten what it was that drew them into fandom in the first place -- and you can be sure it wasn't the constant disruption of the status quo.

Illusion of change demands a very careful balance being maintained, like walking a tightrope. It also helps if the readers don't hang around longer than they are supposed to. (How can you tell when it's been too long? When the basic conceits of the form generate in you a sigh of annoyance rather than a smile of recognition.)

Cast this thinking into other forms. "O My God! Why does LAW & ORDER have to ALWAYS be about some crime having been committed? Can't they do something ORIGINAL?"

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Andrew W. Farago
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Posted: 30 December 2010 at 3:29pm | IP Logged | 6  

When I heard that they were "permanently" getting rid of one of the FF, I thought, "They already did that!"  And then I realized that they already did that...200 months ago.  Is it possible that we actually ran out of Fantastic Four stories around the time that Jack Kirby stopped creating new characters? 


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Peter Martin
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Posted: 30 December 2010 at 3:35pm | IP Logged | 7  

Way to guarantee no casual readers: shrink wrap in a black plastic bag.
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Tim Farnsworth
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Posted: 30 December 2010 at 3:59pm | IP Logged | 8  

I think your comment, Andrew, speaks to the cynicism JB was talking about. While the media event quality of the thing is pretty silly, it seems to me that attacking Marvel for a "dun-dun-DUN!" dramatic character death storyline is like saying, "Aw, man, the FF are fighting Doom again!" Old favorite storylines are bound to turn up - so new readers can experience them for the first time and (hopefully) longtime readers can experience them in a different way. 

With hundreds of stories for these characters going on for over four decades, yeah, there's going to be some repetition. And Spider-Man will one day decide to hang up his tights again, Galactus will try to devour earth again, and Magneto will menace the X-Men again.

And personally I'm GLAD! I'd hate for new readers to miss out on these very fun ideas I once experienced in my reading heyday. Of course I'm not wild about the execution of a lot of these stories now, but...one step at a time. From what people are saying in this thread, Hickman's been doing alright with the FF.
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Francis Grey
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Posted: 30 December 2010 at 4:07pm | IP Logged | 9  

Of all of the members of the Fantastic Four who have "died," I think Reed has died the most times.   But I'm not aware of any of those deaths ever attracting mass media attention or being promoted as "events."
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Tim Farnsworth
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Posted: 30 December 2010 at 5:27pm | IP Logged | 10  

It's true, the media circus stuff is always a little hokey. I think it contributes to the ennui when they make SUCH a big thing about a character death when we all know it's not going to last. If they make a big deal then fans do feel somehow betrayed when it's undone. Better, I think, to just treat it as a very dramatic story beat for readers of the individual comic.
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Andrew W. Farago
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Posted: 30 December 2010 at 6:16pm | IP Logged | 11  

Well, yeah, killing a member of the Fantastic Four (again) makes me feel cynical, as does ending the book (again).  And cool as it might be to see the book become a top-seller again, or (as with Captain America) get a permanent readership boost of 10,000 or so monthly readers, these new readers are going to be getting stories about three mopey members of the FF who will probably take a grim-and-gritty turn following the death of one of their own.

If the only way to get people interested in comic books is by killing off characters and coming up with one stunt after another, I'm increasingly skeptical and cynical about keeping the mainstream comics industry going.  The next stunt that I'd really like to see is to have a really good creative team take over a book, spend a couple of years doing solid stories that don't destroy the entire status quo, and put out fun books that any eight-year-old or brand-new reader can pick up.  The model we've got now can't sustain itself like this.   
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Don Zomberg
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Posted: 30 December 2010 at 9:00pm | IP Logged | 12  

Cast this thinking into other forms.

Of course, that would never happen with something along the lines of Law & Order. As you've pointed out yourself, when people get tired of a particular form of entertainment, they move on to something else. If only that trend ran through comics.

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