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Chris Cottrill
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 September 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 375
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| Posted: 15 November 2010 at 12:31am | IP Logged | 1
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I know I'm late to the conversation but I'll try dole out some wisdom to
you all in my dotage.
Firstly,if you want something to change you must first get off your
ass and do something about it!!! I don't know about anyone else,but
wishes haven't gotten me anything done.Ever.
Put old-fashioned pen to paper and write too those you have grievance
with.Write in to the letters columns that still exist!! Write Disney about
what you find distasteful about Marvel! I doubt they'll be inclined to have
their name even tenuously attached to such things.
Support comics you like by actually buying them!!
Talk to creators at cons!! Don't be bashful about it,but you don't have to
be belligerent either.If you can't feel a 100% about sharing something
with your kid then call'em on it!!! Don't just tell them what you think is
crap.... express your feeling about what you like too.
@JB if the opportunity arises for you to teach new talent then you
impart the full measure of your knowledge for the art.What you have
gained thru your years is precious and should be passed on.
For what it's worth this is my two cents.
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Joe Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 36
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| Posted: 15 November 2010 at 1:33am | IP Logged | 2
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Count me among the PISSED.
I bought comics for 20+ years and now I am only buying trades of 60's-80's material and some 90's stuff. Marvel doesn't care about it's readers anymore. The retailers are their customers now.
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7778
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| Posted: 15 November 2010 at 2:53am | IP Logged | 3
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It's the lies used to justify things that make me angry. You know, the whole '8 year olds never bought comics'. How dare they say that? I've just watched some of the extras on the Iron Man 2 Blu Ray. Ultimates are definitly what is being pushed and I find that depressing to the extreme. Don't reinvent characters, build a new character (Nick Fury). I'm sick of seeing things 'pushed' in the ultimate universe and then those things leaking in to the proper Marvel universe. The ultimate universe isn't easily accessible at all - it has hateful characters, incest and all othe rmanner of stuff going on. THAT is not why I buy comics. If anyone wants to see super heroes do that sort of thing I suggest they go somewhere else. Marvel should return the original line to what it was - family friendly. If they want to do the 'oh so mature stuff', run a separate line, with new characters and leave the originals alone. ALL comics published in the main line should be family friendly, no drug use (Shown as a positive), no swearing, no on screen sex, heroes be heroes, villains be villains, no gore and some really good stories and art. Oh, and publish them on time - if it looks late, get a fill in artist. Apparantly this is too hard to do though
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Tony Midyett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 January 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 2834
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| Posted: 15 November 2010 at 3:15am | IP Logged | 4
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It's weird that the "Ultimate" Universe gave us so many skewed versions of beloved characters. Not really "ultimate" at all, are they? Black Fury and female Vision are one thing, but cannibalistic Blob and six-foot-tall teenage Wolverine and "Ga-Lak-Tus" were just too much. And when you bash the Ultimate Universe, someone always says, "but Ultimate Spider-Man was pretty good!". If so, then why couldn't those creators have just done a re-vamp of the character in "Amazing Spider-Man"? Oh, wait...Peter would've made a deal with the Devil to be 15 again, not just to un-marry MJ. Ugh.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12701
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| Posted: 15 November 2010 at 4:08am | IP Logged | 5
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If JB wants to complain about an industry that has problems and give suggestions on how to improve it. I think that is great, constructive criticism is fine, but derogatory names don't help
****
A few thoughts, Jodi...
JB has quite often posted on his own initiative and in response to direct questions a great deal of industry analysis that combines not only a study of how comicbooks went wrong but how they might be righted once again. He does this not at all rarely. Again, even a casual but regular visitor to the JBF will find that JB does indeed consistently offer "constructive criticism."
That he occasionally -- even regularly -- directs undisguised scorn in vituperative language against those whom he see as having nearly totally destroyed and perpetuating the ruin of the enterprise that has been the central focus of his life's work, well, that's nothing as trifling as mere name-calling. Sometimes calling a spade a spade is far more "constructive" than sugar-coating.
One might certainly dislike JB's mode of expression, but that mode shouldn't be misread as if his style of speaking does in fact run, or that JB is himself unaware that it might be misinterpreted as running, counter to his intent, let alone his sincerity. Of whatever other "sins" he may be guilty, a lack of introspection leading to diminished credibility is not one of them, in my opinion. The man knows who he is and whereof he speaks, and the man is angry.
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7778
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| Posted: 15 November 2010 at 4:33am | IP Logged | 6
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Speaking of Ultimate universe - is there one version of any character in that line that is better than the original? Any? I once got in to a row with a comic shop owner about the line when they asked me what I thought of Ultimates. I said I don't understand it (from what I had seen) and that if they wanted to write those stories why not create new characters (Their take on Galactus being a prime example). He didn't appreciate it, had a go at me for not moving with the times. Never went back there again.
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Tony Midyett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 January 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 2834
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| Posted: 15 November 2010 at 4:36am | IP Logged | 7
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The Ultimate line is like the Star Wars prequels. There's a generation of young folks for whom the lame knock-off is THE version, and the classic original version is just quaintly archaic. I just sigh and shake my head....
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Darren Ashmore
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 960
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| Posted: 15 November 2010 at 6:03am | IP Logged | 8
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I think JB has a RIGHT to be angry. He has passionately given to the industry for the majority of his adult life, certainly inspired most of today's *HOT* superstars and was amongst the list of creators who laid the foundations of the superhero universes in place today (moreso at Marvel than DC). I think it is perhaps fair to say that during the 70's and 80's comic books would probably not have survived without the input of people like JB, Gerry Conway, Sal Buscema, Roy Thomas etc who have now been either marginalised, sidelined or have left the industry altogether, worse than that they are ridiculed in some quarters. Without these creators there wouldn't be an industry to strip mine.
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Petter Myhr Ness
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 July 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 3903
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| Posted: 15 November 2010 at 6:38am | IP Logged | 9
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Speaking of Ultimate universe - is there one version of any character in that line that is better than the original?
--
From what I've read, NO!
I did enjoy Ultimate Spider-Man for a while, but better than the original? No way. As for the others? I read a TP of Ultimate Fantastic Four and it was one of those few instances where I wished I could UNread something.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 15 November 2010 at 7:25am | IP Logged | 10
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If JB's commissions are a form of "vampirism", then why do I feel enriched whenever he shares his work here? Why is my soul bled dry whenever I try to comprehend a Marvel or DC comic?
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Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6832
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| Posted: 15 November 2010 at 8:26am | IP Logged | 11
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Michael Being angry is OK, being verbally abusive takes the focus off of the point and just makes a person look bad.
As I posted before, in the Halloween thread, after someone with 44 posts, posted a picture of himself as The Spirit and this was JB's response
"Frank Miller's Will Eisner's Spirit.•• Shitting all over Will Eisner's grave. Excellent way to celebrate Halloween!"
The moment I saw that post, I knew a bad Byrne story was born. Does he have a right to say that, or call the people in charge of the industry names,it's a free country and he runs this site. But I think it is beneath him to do that and does not serve him well.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133274
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| Posted: 15 November 2010 at 8:33am | IP Logged | 12
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But I think it is beneath him to do that and does not serve him well.•• I am not interested in being "served well". I am interested only in expressing my opinions in the most direct and honest way I know. Anyone who doesn't like it is as free to leave the Forum as they were to enter.
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