Mark wrote;

Not really to argue with you, Greg, but it's easy for me to imagine that 
"cohesive universe" being captured again-- if all the characters were 
simply written on-model again, without any reference to why they 
suddenly became so or any reference to those years that seem so 
incongruent.

Then the 90's and aughts would vanish into the haze just like the 50's 
did.

...And all 16,000 people who still read comics could really enjoy them 
again!

**********************

Mark, here is what I find depressing.

 I don't think you are right (at least not completely).

Let me tell you why, and it was this realization which made me give up.

The truth of the matter is that the truth is no longer valid.  The true characterization of these characters have been so twisted for so long, that the actual, accurate characterization has become just another incarnation. No more valid than the new stuff.

Hulk hasn't been the Hulk for so long, that to go back to THE Hulk, would mean to change the reality of someone who's been reading the HULK for TWENTY YEARS.

I walked away from commenting on the Bowen forum (company that makes incredible statues of these characters, statuemarvels.com ) because I used to be the guy who always fought for the "accurate" depiction of these characters (which BD does VERY well).

That is until I realized that for many BD collectors, the "accurate" depiction was completely contrary to what THEY knew and loved.  By what right did I have to demand "accuracy" when it meant denying someone something THEY have loved.

I realized then that we've gone beyond the point of no return because to return would mean as drastic a change for modern fans as the JQ era has been for us.

Do we really have that right anymore?

Now to be clear,.. I happen to agree with you that should it go back that it would work much better, but not without "pissing of a few "fans"".

Sean wrote:

Of course! Some of the older stuff is better. And some of the newer stuff 
is better. And yes, permissiveness in terms of language and subject 
matter has changed, and that's led to some stuff that — to my well-over-
30 eyes — seems odd. It's also led to some pretty obnoxious storylines, 
from what I hear. But isn't that as it ever was?

If I had grown up in the 60s reading X-Men and you'd have told me that 
Marvel Girl would someday have a different name and different powers 
and be a bad guy and be depicted dressed as a dominatrix on the cover of 
a comic, I could reasonably be very taken aback. But as a kid, X-Men 134 
was one of my first Marvel comics, and I just though "this is great!"

Were standards different? Yes. Were the creators depraved, or 
inappropriate, or wrong by the day's standards? I don't think so. Should 
they have been taken to task because they were implicitly saying that Lee 
and Kirby got it wrong? No. But I bet if I'd have shown my grandma that 
comic, she wouldn't have let me read it.

And to be clear, I actually agree with a lot of the specific complaints about 
comics voiced here. It's the blanket "everything new is worse because it's 
not like it was when I was a kid" statements that I take issue with. In part 
because that's not true, and in part because a lot of what people perceive 
as being "new" isn't all that new at all. A lot of it is just new as it pertains 
to an individual. 

***********************

Sean, I have to start by saying that I respect your opinion and POV. In fact I agree with much of it. I too often caution people about looking at the past with rose colored glasses.

You also make a valid point about things always changing,  Comics and characters in the 70's were very different from the 60's. 

having said that, I feel compelled to say that I do think there is a BIG difference between what is happening today and the "changes" in the past.

While you are right that Jean Grey was very different by issue 134 of the x-men, that change was a progressive change which took place slowly over the years.

Much the same way Peter parker was no longer a teenager by the late 70's, so too had Jean Grey grown into a woman who went through an experience which affected her abilities, personality, and outfit.  She was the same Jean Grey.

That is not what is happening today.

Today's Modern writers and artists approach is to simply envision what THEY perceive the character to be and to present them as such.  Those views often come from a cursory knowledge of said character or worst yet, their perception of a character. As a result, Sometimes, those changes aren't just sudden, then completely contradict what came before, without any progression or explanation.

I don't think the complaint is just about whether comics today are "good" or "bad". I think the issues is that they A) have no respect for the characters B) Have no respect for the creators (with the need to "fix" what came before) and C) are so dark, brooding, bloody and outrageous that they are no longer for everyone, certainly not children. Genius or not, if what you are looking for is light entertainment, and I don't know why else one would be interested in a genre about people in tights with super powers, then comics today are no longer for you.  

by the way, I 'm sure you know this already but by "light" I do not mean weak, or less then by any stretch of the imagination.  I just mean enjoyable by all

Nice point. "Current" comic book readers have been weened on sh*t for so long, they wouldn't know a good story/character if it crapped in their mouth.

This is why Hollywood continues to atrophy with sequels/remakes, why Marvel/DC whores the same storylines over and over (hey, guess what? Another big Eclipso event this year! Yeah! It's 1990 all over again!!!) In short, if corporations have saturated all media forms with mediocrity and idiocy for decades, how would those suckling at it distinguish between what is enhancing and what is virulent tripe?

*************

Yup,...

I will say this loud and clear. What is happening in today's comics, what JQ and Bendis and Millar & co. have done may,..... or will result in the destruction of the industry.

When this last group of "fans" die out and aren't replaced.  when the superhero movie is no longer in vogue, when the true characters, therefore the magic is gone,.... the end will come.

THAT more than anything else is another reason why I am pissed