You know, there's a division between readers who read comic books for story, character, and the like, and readers who buy comic books to support superheroes. Or to put it another way, to support copyrighted -corporate superheroes.

To support obviously means to spend money on the comics.

I don't support superheroes. I read for story and art. I've (painfully) made concessions to support art, like Gabriel Hardman's, like Nicola Scott's, like Butch Guice's. But I never buy a superhero comic book for the superhero.

And I don't support horrible art. I think a bunch of people here and fans in general have a taste for sh*t. I mean godawful sh*t. Shameful sh*t.

You could have any great writer you can think of write a comic book, but the primal drive of the story has to come from the art. That's a hard and fast rule.

A lot of readers, all readers who say they support comic books, actually support superheroes and sh*tty art and tripe-filled stories. Yes, these things are mutually exclusive. It's a terrible realization. Those two things cannot exist in the same comic at the same time.

If you're supporting superheroes because you are a fan, because you have integrated the character within your wheelhouse of Likes, then you the reader are responsible for the product on the shelves right now.

There is an inappropriate division between what should be supported, story and art, and the corporate drive to make money from nostalgia.

And when I say "inappropriate", I don't mean in the PC way. I mean "not suitable." For the comic book, the format itself, and the way stories are told in that format, no one at Marvel/DC understands how to tell those stories, produce that art, or sell that kind of product.

All the douche-bags on the internet will proclaim that anyone who says what I say is saying I want comics to revert back 25 years ago.

I'm not saying any such thing. What I am saying is that there is a suitable way to approach stories and art in comic book form, and what Dick Giordano and Joe Orlando and Carmine Infantino and Denny O'Neill and Roy Thomas and Stan Lee did in their time of control was suitable to the product. They produced comic books, not superheroes. They sold stories, not failed movie scripts. They heralded solid, functional art over inappropriate division of labor.

No - I joined up because it looked like a very interesting forum - a lot of very strong views.

But I am interested in what's specifically making JB angry.

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Both.

I still think I should pitch my Shang-Chi, Master of Kung-Fu idea to M****l and Hollywood.

In it Shang-Chi is actually an African-American rapper (Shang-Chi being his rap name) who is also a black belt in kung fu, while Fu Manchu is actually a record producer who also happens to be an Islamic terrorist.

As for the current state of comics, I'm bitter AND pissed as a fan. I grew up reading comics and used to hope that if I ever had kids, they'd grow up reading comics, too. I don't have kids, but if I did, there's no way in hell I'd let them read anything put out  by M****l right now outside the "Adventures" book/line/whatever, and can think of a few non-Vertigo DC books I wouldn't let them near, either.

I shut down my comics subscriptions at the LCS back in June, for financial reasons (I'm unemployed and have medical issues). And I think it speaks volumes that the only book I was reading that I miss is an independant publisher title.

Tony, I've heard Jackson tell that story himself on a talk show back around when the first Iron Man movie came out. (Pretty sure he said it was his agent who told him)

That's what the word "integrity" means; consistently being true to yourself and your own philosophy. Continue to point out the flaws and problems which are dragging comics into oblivion. Ignore the outcry from "fans". Fans - and people in general - are extremely fickle. They love you when you give them what they want, and denounce you loudly when you say what they don't want to hear.

Though I know the movie is not a favorite of yours, I'll quote a line from The Dark Knight: "You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain".