Byrne Robotics: Multiple Versions of Characters

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Chris Wood
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Joined: 17 July 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 166

Posted: 06 November 2010 at 9:33am \| IP Logged \| 1

The thread on "Red Hulk" got me thinking about how Marvel has attempted many times to "go to the same well" with its heroes. In my opinion, this trend has severely diluted the brand and appeal of many core characters. Still, I thought it would be fun to create a list of characters that have been created as surrogates, copies or replacements for classic heroes. (Sorry is this has been done before.)

Here's a start (feel free to add others):

Thor: Beta Ray Bill, Thunderstrike

Hulk: Red Hulk, She-Hulk(s), Hulkling

Captain America: The retrocon versions I, II, III, the first black Captain America, the Bucky Cap, U.S. Agent

Iron Man: War Machine

Spider-Man: Spider-Man 2099, Spider-Girl -- not sure how to treat the different Spider-Woman characters, as Jessica Drew is certainly a far different character in powers and costume.

Wolverine: Daken

Ghost Rider: Johnny Blaze and Danny Ketch

Multiple Man: Multiple Man, Multiple Man, Multiple Man ... (just kidding)

I know I'm missing others, including some of the other "Young Avengers" and 2099 derivatives. I'm not looking for other identities assumed by heroes, such as The Captain and Nomad, only those characters who have replaced or are truly derivative of others.

Any thoughts?

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Don Zomberg
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Joined: 23 November 2005
Posts: 2355

Posted: 06 November 2010 at 10:07am \| IP Logged \| 2

Wolverine: Daken.

X 23.

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Paul Lloyd
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Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: Wales
Posts: 486

Posted: 06 November 2010 at 10:15am \| IP Logged \| 3

The Captain Britain Corps

Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel

... I think it can be interesting if done properly. If you include female versions of characters and kid sidekicks, DC it seems to be more common at DC than Marvel.

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Chris Wood
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Joined: 17 July 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 166

Posted: 06 November 2010 at 10:24am \| IP Logged \| 4

Yes, I can't believe I missed Captain Marvel/Ms. Marvel. I'm not as familiar with DC, I'm afraid, although I know there are many such duplications, going all the way back to the Barry Allen Flash and many, many others.

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Mike Farley
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2701

Posted: 06 November 2010 at 11:02am \| IP Logged \| 5

The Silver Age Green Lantern is the king of un-uniqueness with literally thousands of other "people" out there with the same powers and wearing the same costume.

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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132611

Posted: 06 November 2010 at 11:09am \| IP Logged \| 6

Sadly, it is all part of the process by which Marvel has been turned into DC.

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Petter Myhr Ness
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Joined: 02 July 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 3856

Posted: 06 November 2010 at 11:49am \| IP Logged \| 7

DC is ALL about multiple versions of characters these days, it seems. Ever since they killed off Barry Allen in the original CRISIS, they have explored the "generational aspect" of basically most of their characters.

It used to mean replacement characters, but now that seems to have escalated into multiple versions of the same characters appearing at the same time. Barry Allen is back as The Flash, but Wally West is also still Flash. Bruce Wayne is back as Batman, but Dick Grayson still carries the cowl. "The more, the merrier" as Geoff Johns wrote in his FLASH REBIRTH series.

I do not agree.

It also seems contradictory, from a pure marketing point of view, that a company would dillute their own "product" the way DC has been doing for so many years.

My opionion is that a replacement character can be fun for single storyline or so, but never as a permanent replacement.

Not that anything is ever permanent in comics. DC finally destroyed that pretense when they brought Barry Allen back after nearly 20 years.

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Greg McPhee
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Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5071

Posted: 06 November 2010 at 12:16pm \| IP Logged \| 8

Barry Allen should never have been killed in the first place. That was another bad move by DC Editorial.

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Caleb M. Edmond
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Joined: 20 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 762

Posted: 06 November 2010 at 12:48pm \| IP Logged \| 9

Aside from 'diluting' the brand' (which in and of itself is enough of a reason NOT to go this route), this goes a loooooong way to killing the character.

IMO, if they couldn't come up with new and interesting storylines for the original character without having to resort to creating dopplegangers offspring, 'Next Gen' copies and the like, how in the world are they going to create ongoing stories for not only the character they were based on, but these copy-cat characters as well (especially when they all eventually get heir own titles)?

Makes one wonder, how long before someone comes up with a storyline involving Daken"s son? (Just thinking about it is making my brain bleed!)

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Michael Hatton
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Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 525

Posted: 06 November 2010 at 1:13pm \| IP Logged \| 10

I think Green Lantern gets a pass because that is part of the silver age character from the beginning. Though if they had just stuck to one human Green Lantern it would have been better.

Batman Inc is not an idea that I like. It is bad enough that Dick Grayson is Batman but Bruce Wayne being Batman at the same time and it depends on which series you buy as to which Batman you get is way beyond what I like.

Marvel may be going in the same direction but I do not think they will ever take this idea as far as DC will.

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Chad Carter
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Joined: 16 June 2005
Posts: 9584

Posted: 06 November 2010 at 2:17pm \| IP Logged \| 11

Also, if Marvel/DC cannot de-unique characters like Power Man by making more Power Men knock-offs, they proceed to remove his "costume" for a gangbanger outfit, or a t-shirt. Thus, in some weird way, Marvel/DC makes Power Man a racially-profiled generic.

Seems like a lot of hard work to ruin a character!

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Chad Carter
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Joined: 16 June 2005
Posts: 9584

Posted: 06 November 2010 at 2:21pm \| IP Logged \| 12

One of the reasons the Doom Patrol, Jonah Hex, the Question, Creature Commandos, Ultra the Multi-Alien, Metamorpho, and the like are my favorites in comics is because they pretty much cannot be de-uniqued. No matter how hard Marvel/DC tries, these characters are specifically what they are.

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