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Kirk Campbell Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 September 2010 Posts: 232
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Posted: 01 November 2010 at 8:18pm | IP Logged | 1
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What a joke. The industry won't listen to us because it would require them to make concessions they don't want to make, plain and simple. They don't want to hold creators accountable for timely books because of their concern that they'll have another 'Image' happening and lose all the top names. They don't want to write or market their comics for all ages beacuse it would require them to hold back on some of the more mature and convoluted content found in today's comics, thus "stifling" their creativity. They've COMPLETELY forgotten that virtually everyone gets into comics when they're around 10-years-old, if not sooner. It's a joke. You have nothing but fanboys running the asylum and writing comics FOR THEMSELVES.
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Paul Kimball Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2202
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Posted: 01 November 2010 at 8:28pm | IP Logged | 2
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his is all constructive criticism, because we all love comicbooks, and want them to succeed. +++++++++ I think that's the key Lars, constructive criticism. I think when that criticism is phrased more as "hey dumb ass boy geniuses at M++++" it's easier to ignore even if the advice is solid. I would be curious to know what Warren Ellis or some of the writers who are routinely late would say if told "we love your work but if you can't produce it on time, we can't work with you." Would they just walk away? I know if you give a director money to make a movie, the studio doesn't expect 1/2 a movie in 20 years, they have guidelines so I don't know why comic writers would be surprised to be held to the same standard.
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Mark Haslett Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6427
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Posted: 01 November 2010 at 8:37pm | IP Logged | 3
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Paul: I know if you give a director money to make a movie, the studio doesn't expect 1/2 a movie in 20 years, they have guidelines so I don't know why comic writers would be surprised to be held to the same standard.*** Have you heard of "first look deals" and "vanity shingles" and "pay or play offers"? The studios do indeed pay top talent for a ton of material that never sees the light of day. It's part of their system. ...Maybe that's part of Marvel's problem? Could it possibly be they enjoy "playing Hollywood"?
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Paul Kimball Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2202
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Posted: 01 November 2010 at 9:06pm | IP Logged | 4
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Hey Mark, I didn't know it worked that way Mark. I thought that if the studio gave you the money for a movie, you still needed to produce a movie. Whether it was show or not is a different issue.If what you're saying is true, then I have just done something my cat says i never will. I have learned.
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Nathan Greno Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 9154
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Posted: 01 November 2010 at 9:16pm | IP Logged | 5
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Mark: Have you heard of "first look deals" and "vanity shingles" and "pay or play offers"? The studios do indeed pay top talent for a ton of material that never sees the light of day. It's part of their system. ---- It's part of their development process. I see nothing wrong there... ---- ...Maybe that's part of Marvel's problem? Could it possibly be they enjoy "playing Hollywood"? ---- Hollywood really doesn't spend much time/money promoting "first look deals" -- and when Hollywood promotes a film, you'll usually find the film in theaters on schedule. Check out any latest Fall Movie Preview this year -- I'll bet every one of those films will be in theaters the weekend it's supposed to open. What goes on in the comics field is unlike anything I have ever heard of.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133326
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Posted: 02 November 2010 at 6:25am | IP Logged | 6
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The "Hollywood" aspect of comics today is basically a variant of an old one-liner: "Marvel wants to be Hollywood in the worst way -- and they are!"Breevort's comments do not represent the words of a working editor at a top publishing company. If they did, he'd have been slapped down hard by his bosses. Instead, they represent a cliched cartoon of a fat-cat Hollywood producer, sitting behind his big desk, puffing on his big stogie, as directors, writers, actors, etc, come a'groveling to him, begging for work. And I, for one, am far too busy producing comic books to play that game.
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Michael Huber Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 August 2007 Location: United States Posts: 3338
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Posted: 02 November 2010 at 7:51am | IP Logged | 7
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So root cause is, ego's are getting in the way of making quality product, and arguably, money?
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Brad Krawchuk Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 5819
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Posted: 02 November 2010 at 7:59am | IP Logged | 8
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I didn't know it worked that way Mark. I thought that if the studio gave you the money for a movie, you still needed to produce a movie. Whether it was show or not is a different issue.
---
Nathan already jumped in, but I'll add just because they don't produce a movie (the decision to do which always stays with the studio producing the film), work IS produced. They have a screenplay, might have costumes designed, might have storyboards already up, might have sets already being built, and then they decide the film won't be worth it so they cut their losses on those things and go on to something else. Might already have a cast in place too, and have paid them a portion of their wages to start training or something for the movie.
WORK, however, is still done and expected. If someone along the way of a (future) cancelled movie comes to work late all the time, and doesn't meet budget and time constraints, they'll be fired, someone else will be brought in, and that work will continue until such point as the studio decides to pull the plug.
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Greg Woronchak Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 1631
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Posted: 02 November 2010 at 8:10am | IP Logged | 9
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They don't want to write or market their comics for all ages beacuse it would require them to hold back on some of the more mature and convoluted content found in today's comics, thus "stifling" their creativity
That sounds about right. The thing is, I figure it'd be a really cool challenge to write a sophisticated, timeless super-hero comic that can be read by all ages.
So root cause is, ego's are getting in the way of making quality product, and arguably, money?
Although not privy to the inner workings behind the curtain, money is my guess for the main culprit. The Big Two try gimmicks to produce profitable books while paying everyone in the long production line.
The dwindling sales numbers must be having some kind of effect, otherwise the suits need some serious business training!
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Michael Huber Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 August 2007 Location: United States Posts: 3338
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Posted: 02 November 2010 at 8:15am | IP Logged | 10
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I still think they are looking for a quick easy cheap stunt that'll set it all right, instead of hunkering down and actually building something through hard work. Stan and Jack didn't do it with gimics, they worked.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133326
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Posted: 02 November 2010 at 8:54am | IP Logged | 11
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…money is my guess for the main culprit.•• Always. The switch to the Direct Sales Market as the primary venue was all about money. There, because there were no returns, and publishers needed to print only as many books as were ordered (with a small overage for spoilage), publishing those books became very nearly pure profit. Was it a SMALLER profit? Sure. But it was a GUARANTEED profit. And has that profit continued to shrink? Yes. But what little is left is still GUARANTEED. The industry has placed itself in a position wherein making any real, positive, sweeping changes would be effectively the same as starting over as a new business. And rule of thumb for new business is "Prepare to lose money for the first few years." So, to really accomplish anything, the publishers would have to be prepared to give up their guaranteed profits, small as they are, and take some very real RISKS. You know -- what Breevort apparently thinks is taking the easy way.
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Sean Blythe Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 342
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Posted: 02 November 2010 at 9:53am | IP Logged | 12
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I'm not saying this to be snarky or contentious -- I really want to know: is there anyone engaged in this discussion who actually believes that comicbooks printed on paper will ever be a growing business again? I ask this not as an indictment of the people running Marvel and DC, but in light of the fact that newsstand sales and subscriptions to almost every periodical in existence have nosedived. Is it reasonable to expect Marvel and DC to rebound as print publishers when virtually no other print publication is growing? Would any of you start a magazine of any kind today?
Edited by Sean Blythe on 02 November 2010 at 9:55am
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