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Chad Carter Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 16 June 2005 Posts: 9584
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Posted: 31 October 2010 at 12:10pm | IP Logged | 1
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Breevort: the new Dan Didiot. I wonder how thick the callouses on Breevort's knees are from bowing and scraping to the Hollywood hacks and corporate suits.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132629
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Posted: 31 October 2010 at 12:34pm | IP Logged | 2
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…and corporate suits.•• And there's a big part of the problem in and of itself. Marvel at its most successful, in the Sixties and early Seventies, was virtually self-contained. It was not a small piece of a larger whole. Sure, there was a corporate entity that owned Marvel -- several of them, in fact. The company kept being passed around like nobody wanted to catch its cooties -- but Stan was about as high up as it went, looking for anyone with anything to say about the content of the books. The job of making comics was all about making comics. The job of selling comics was all about selling comics. Nobody got into the Biz to make a name or "leave their mark". And there were no bungee jumpers. Those who wrote and drew comics did it full time. It was a JOB, not a HOBBY.
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Thomas Moudry Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5060
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Posted: 31 October 2010 at 12:40pm | IP Logged | 3
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The remarks about the JBF members from Mr. Brevoort are...interesting; he paints everyone who posts here—from regulars to semi-regulars to occasionals—with the same broad brush, assuming that all members are of the same mind when it comes to Marvel. Just from the posts in this thread, it's clear that several folks who visit here purchase Marvel titles from time to time—myself included, mind you; and those folks—as well as those who have given up on Marvel (and DC) titles—have different opinions about what's wrong with the Big Two and how to fix them. Isn't that true of anything? Fans and former fans have opinions. Why let that bother you if you're in the industry? Isn't it part and parcel of the gig? Or does $600 or so I spend of Marvel books each year, plus whatever licensing money they get from the Eaglemoss figurines I buy, just not matter? Please answer that for me, Mr. Brevoort. I'd really like to know.
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Thomas Moudry Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5060
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Posted: 31 October 2010 at 12:42pm | IP Logged | 4
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(Oh, and let us not forget that I bought "Iron Man 2" on Blu-ray after I saw it at the cinema, and I plan to support "Thor," "Captain America: The First Avenger," and "The Avengers" when they hit the big screen. Still not allowed to have an opinion, Mr. Brevoort?)
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Brad Wilders Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 15 December 2008 Posts: 175
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Posted: 31 October 2010 at 12:44pm | IP Logged | 5
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When asked about late books, his answer is hollywood writers are better so there's nothing really that can be done for late books, its totally at the mercy of the late writers. •• I am not defending Breevort (his comments regarding this board were asinine), but where did he say "hollywood writers are better"? If you are referring to this comment on his twitter page regarding late books, then a far more accurate summary of his "explanation" as to why late books are tolerated is that late writers who can generate more profits than timely writers are permitted to behave "badly" (his words). Now, there is certainly room for disagreement with his rationale*, but his statement is quite different than saying hollywood writers are by definition better. BT *He seems to disregard, for example, any long-term impact that late books have had on the health of the industry.
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Chris Wood Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 17 July 2009 Location: United States Posts: 166
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Posted: 31 October 2010 at 12:47pm | IP Logged | 6
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The notion of producing books on regular, timely schedules, making them accessible to all ages of readers, eschewing stunts in favor of consistent, solid storytelling -- these things are not options.
••
It's so simple, really. Challenges would remain, certainly, but the solutions you suggest would put the industry at least on a far firmer foundation. Improvements in distribution and marketing could follow.
The history of how and why the culture at the Big Two changed, for the worse, is a tragic one: stunts, gimmick covers, drastic cuts in distribution channels. Brevoort's attitude shows very clearly that there will be no turnaround any time soon.
"Creators" are too talented to be pressured with deadlines. Heroes are no longer heroes. Villains are no longer villains. Everything is a shade of gray. Virtually every comic is intended for "mature" audiences. Writers and editors are ashamed to be working in the medium, an attitude that translates into embarrassment over Captain America's costume in the upcoming film.
The inmates are running the asylum.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132629
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Posted: 31 October 2010 at 1:01pm | IP Logged | 7
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It's important to keep this whole "ego" thing in the proper perspective.When Charlton needed a new artist for WHEELIE AND THE CHOPPER BUNCH, George Wildman, their EiC, phoned me. I'd been in the business about eight minutes, but the Editor in Chief picked up the phone and offered me the book. Same with DOOMSDAY + !. Same with SPACE: 1999. When Marvel needed a new artist for IRON FIST, their traffic manager, John Verpoorten, called me. When they were looking for someone to do MARVEL TEAM-UP, the EiC's assistant, Jim Shooter, called me. Same for THE CHAMPIONS. When they needed a new artist on UNCANNY X-MEN, Archie Goodwin, the Editor in Chief at Marvel, picked up the phone and called me. Mark Gruenwald asked me to do SHE-HULK. Howard Mackie asked me to do AVENGERS WEST COAST. Ralph Macchio asked me to do SPIDER-MAN: CHAPTER ONE. (And this does not even cover the stuff I was offered, but declined!) When DC wanted to reboot Superman, Dick Giordano, the Editor-in-Chief, picked up the phone and called me. Dan Didio offered me DOOM PATROL. Mike Carlin asked me to do the two JLA arcs. Chris Ryall, head honcho of IDW, asked me to do some STAR TREK stuff for them. Asked me to do some ANGEL stuff. Asked me to restart NEXT MEN. In fact, in my whole career in comics, aside from my creator owned works, there have been precisely THREE instances where I went to the editors: UNTOLD LEGEND OF THE BATMAN, X-MEN: THE HIDDEN YEARS, and BLOOD OF THE DEMON. The first I heard was in the pipeline, when I was at a Chicago con, and immediately sought out the editor to offer my services. The others -- well, I just wanted to do 'em! Everything else I have ever done in comics, happened because an editor, or, frequently, the Editor-in-Chief, asked me to do it. That is, after all, the most basic job description for an editor: find the talent for the job. Yet, when, a while back, we got to talking on this board about the likelihood of my taking on an X-MEN FOREVER kind of book, as Chris had just started at the time, and we even kicked around a title, X-MEN EVERMORE, and I even went so far as to say it sounded like it could be a fun project and something I would be actually interested in doing, Tom Breevort responded to a Forum member's email about this by saying it was up to me to pick up the phone and call him, to show I was "serious". But it's MY ego that's the issue. . .
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Stephen Churay Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 25 March 2009 Location: United States Posts: 8369
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Posted: 31 October 2010 at 1:04pm | IP Logged | 8
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Seems to me that the title of this thread is a bit incorrect. Marvel is definitely listening. I think as long as we were an isolated group, they just didn't care what we discussed or how. Well, in the last few months, it seems other websites and forums are starting to think like a lot of us do. Anyway, if they weren't listening, then why bother with the tweet.
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Lars Sandmark Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 05 October 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 3144
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Posted: 31 October 2010 at 1:46pm | IP Logged | 9
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Stephen, they can hear, but they aren't LISTENING.it's an EGO thing. Just like JB just pointed out in his post.
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Stephen Churay Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 25 March 2009 Location: United States Posts: 8369
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Posted: 31 October 2010 at 3:33pm | IP Logged | 10
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You're probably right Lars. If they were listening, Brevoort wouldn't have tweeted with such venom.Funny, in the new T&A report on CBR the The Wonder Twins at Marvel mention how they solicited 40 page issues of a book to validate a $3.99 price point. Then couldn't get enough material to put 40 pages together. This comment was to answer a fan who asked where the missing pages were. Promises made, promises unkept.
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Anthony J Lombardi Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 12 January 2005 Location: United States Posts: 9410
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Posted: 31 October 2010 at 7:19pm | IP Logged | 11
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Marvel and DC will not try to fix things as along as people continue to buy their trash. The declining sales figures are showing thatpeople aren't buying as much. It's speculation at best but I'd say if it weren't for Time Warner and now Disney. Both companies would go out of business eventually. As far as the ego centric creators that are working at the not so big two and at Image for that matter. They should consider thinking about their own future. Comic history has show that once you are no longer the flavor of the month you are just as expendable as those who came before you. What happen to Kirby will happen to you.
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Joseph Gauthier Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 11 March 2009 Posts: 1416
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Posted: 31 October 2010 at 8:36pm | IP Logged | 12
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JB wrote:
Yet, when, a while back, we got to talking on this board about the likelihood of my taking on an X-MEN FOREVER kind of book, as Chris had just started at the time, and we even kicked around a title, X-MEN EVERMORE, and I even went so far as to say it sounded like it could be a fun project and something I would be actually interested in doing, Tom Breevort responded to a Forum member's email about this by saying it was up to me to pick up the phone and call him, to show I was "serious".********* On a related note, I followed the link up-topic and poked around a bit and I happened across this: Whatever he may be saying on Twitter, I doubt that Frank is genuinely serious about wanting to do another Marvel project any time soon. But if he is, he knows the proper folks up at Marvel to reach out to.) **********
I gather from context, that this guy is a Marvel Exec, but who exactly is he?
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