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James Revilla
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2266
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| Posted: 03 November 2010 at 1:04am | IP Logged | 1
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So a 99 cents digital copy is not unthinkable?
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Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
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| Posted: 03 November 2010 at 3:07am | IP Logged | 2
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Not unthinkable. There are some issues right now that can be had for
as much. Mostly back issues. More than likely, you're looking at a
$1.99 an issue price point. Hopefully, the day will come that you can
get a subscription service through the app. In the case of Marvel, that
might take some doing, as they would have to transfer over there
current digital library to the app platform. Again, that is a completely
different system that's incompatible with the current online service.
Edited by Stephen Churay on 03 November 2010 at 3:09am
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David Teller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 June 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 213
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| Posted: 03 November 2010 at 4:51am | IP Logged | 3
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Hi guys. My day job is as a management consultant.
I see companies in Marvels position. Through making lots of little "OK" decisions without an overarching company vision, over a period of years, they lead themselves into some pretty dysfunctional dead ends.
Now, to get themselves out? They need a huge culture change in the leadership and a new vision/purpose behind the organisation.
This is hard. (70% of change projects fail) And expensive. In money, but more in emotional, mental and physical effort.
Ouch.
The big issue is: Can they afford NOT to do this? The other option is slow death. With a whimper.
It strikes me, that the leaders of Marvel kind of want this slow death. They are just making more and more short term "OK" mitigations to slow the decline. It avoids them having to make the big decisions and take the risks associated with the change in direction. Then they can leave the hard choices to the higher levels in Marvel (which will exploit and utilise the Marvel characters appropriately - Like they have their own. Unfortunately, probably not in any great amount in the "comic book" sphere.)
So, the future of Spider-Man is "safe". The question is, should the higher levels of Marvel be concerned just about CA or about comics as a medium, as a whole?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133324
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| Posted: 03 November 2010 at 5:00am | IP Logged | 4
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There is an interesting essay in the latest SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN, on why digital printing is perhaps not the rosy future of publishing so many folk seem to think. I suggest you all find a copy and give it a read.Comicbook publishers might want to do the same.
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Ian M. Palmer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 1342
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| Posted: 03 November 2010 at 6:17am | IP Logged | 5
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The idea is to focus all that "creative life" onto the best and most accessible characters. Have a couple of Superman and Batman comics and do the old 1980s schtick of continuing stories from one to the other. Crossovers are frowned upon, just keep each title whether it's FF or Wonder Woman in their own "universe." You don't have to have comics that are all done in one issue, but you can insure Wonder Woman readers get an ongoing story without having to buy any other comics from DC. I almost agree. My version: sell in supermarkets. Target kids, because teens don't go to supermarkets. Issues MUST be self-contained, because we're talking impulse (pester) purchases, and absolutely don't want to give people stories where they don't know what's going on. Also, shelf-life is longer because one issue doesn't render another one out-of-date. Essentially, it's the old model. The old model was abandoned not because it didn't work, but because the industry thought the DSM would be better. It isn't. However, we're all thinking of the industry as a business. We've just learned that it doesn't think it is. It thinks arrested-adolescent, salacious, incoherent, slaughter-porn posery is "art". IMP.
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Dan Avenell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 March 2008
Posts: 1038
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| Posted: 03 November 2010 at 6:49am | IP Logged | 6
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Ok then, 15 Marvel comics that should be on the newstands/walmart/on-model/all-ages/on-time/each-story self-contained or three-issue arc at most.
Spider-Man
The Fantastic Four
The Avengers
Hulk
Thor
X-Men
Wolverine (inevitably)
Daredevil
A Team-Up book (to introduce other Marvel characters)
Captain America
Iron Man
3 more, you guys choose
Marvel/Brevoort, would it be so difficult to leave all your 'edgy/emo/for mature readers only' titles available in the comic stores for the aging fanbase, but still get these core books at the local store? (And put word balloons and text, and covers that show what's in the story too while you're at it.)
If this idea really is an impossible 'quick-fix' made by oh-so-ignorant-me, can you tell me why? Thanks.
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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4830
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| Posted: 03 November 2010 at 7:26am | IP Logged | 7
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Don't know if anyone saw this but here's a follow-up answeredby Brevoort concerning his remarks to the JBF board:
-C! |
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Jason Mark Hickok
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 February 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 10472
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| Posted: 03 November 2010 at 7:35am | IP Logged | 8
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So Breevort's apology is accompanied by taking another potshot at us? Once again WE have to go to HIM to offer real suggestions on what we think is wrong with the market! He has already acknowledged there is a problem but HE isn't willing to go looking for answers or long term fixes (outside of the box)? Boy am I glad he is one of the ones in charge. Sheesh!
He did get one thing right is that we don't really have new ideas just the old ones that worked. Get the best books out you can each month, get them out on time, make them for everyone, make them accessible to everyone, try everything to get new younger readers, etc.
All of these things evidently too hard to do or too late to try or whatever other reason not to try them again.
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David Teller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 June 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 213
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| Posted: 03 November 2010 at 7:59am | IP Logged | 9
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I work with managers like Brevoort. It is a classic failure in leadership. Leadership is not about being King. About sitting "at the top" on the throne. it is about reaching out and supporting your colleagues in your organisation through dealing with organisational issues and setting vision. Go find out, not sit back and wait.
Gosh, what terrible terrible leadership skills.
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Tim O Neill
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10937
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| Posted: 03 November 2010 at 8:09am | IP Logged | 10
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I don't understand the timing of all this - JB hasn't been saying anything different than he always has about publisher's ills. The only thing that changed is that more and more artists and comic shops are agreeing with him. Is this Tom Breevort's attempt to show the commentators what happens to those who are vocal against The Company? He's not even debating anything substantive - he's just insulting JB.
This idea that only discussion forums that interact with the publishers is worth your time is absolutely ludicrous. He's saying that company controlled publicists should control opinion forums on the books your reading? JB has a long career at Marvel, DC, and independent publishers. He's in a unique position to comment on the creative output and business approach of the publishers. That he does it independently and sometimes controversially lends more credence in my eyes. He's remained honest on an independent forum even when it has potentially pushed him further from working with the characters he clearly loves. That takes courage.
JB was one of the first artists to be recognized by fans as the kind of celebrity that JB regularly derides on this forum. I have a lot of respect for how JB has been popping the celebrity bubble that he knows he could profit from. I really like how JB does not play the publicity friendly role and instead chooses honesty. I can't stand the publicity machines of the film and publishing - maybe I am just too aware of the process. I don't mind people in the comic industry being vocal about JB's work and opinions, but I wish they would just stick to the work and opinions. JB is vocal about actual issues - people like Breevort come back with personal insults. That to me shows that they don't have much of an arguement.
I think it's good for artists to talk honestly about their peer's work and the market in which their work is represented. Literary history is riddled with poisonous quotes. Maybe we see it less in the comic world because of this artificial comic convention environment. I think artists do need to be honest - we're certainly not going to get honesty from business spinmeisters towing the company line.
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Dan Avenell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 March 2008
Posts: 1038
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| Posted: 03 November 2010 at 8:21am | IP Logged | 11
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I just politely asked him why it was impossible to get 15 or so core titles with all-ages material on the newstands/local shops. Presumably he will explain why, then we will all know, yay.
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Ben Mcvay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 June 2006
Posts: 1414
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| Posted: 03 November 2010 at 8:36am | IP Logged | 12
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On the bright side, at least Brevoort has his looks. Seriously, his outfit in that pic (too small hat, duster and vest, etc.) takes it too a whole new level.
Edited by Ben Mcvay on 03 November 2010 at 8:39am
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