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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133555
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| Posted: 24 October 2010 at 7:01pm | IP Logged | 1
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ASM 649 cover.•• That actually looks like a comicbook cover! What were they thinking?!?!?
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4649
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| Posted: 24 October 2010 at 7:16pm | IP Logged | 2
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JB wrote:
| In the plot-pencils-script style of the "Marvel Method" an artist who is doing the plotting loses control of the work the moment it is turned over to the scripter. |
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That is certainly true, and I have read that there were instances when Stan sometimes scripted things other that what Ditko intended. And you're right about the Him story... Kirby's margin notes on the original art indicate a substantially different story that what Stan wrote.
But changing Ditko's intended reveal of the Goblin's identity would have been a much bigger deal. I don't see how it could have been done without Stan getting another artist to redraw things. And he likely would have known that doing that would make Ditko quit. And it wouldn't be something he could slip by, since (unlike with Kirby), he would have to send the dialogued pages back to Ditko for inking. I'm skeptical that in this instance Stan would have been willing to risk Ditko quitting over a plot point like this.
Who's the source of the story that they argued over the Goblin's identity? Has Stan said that?
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 24 October 2010 at 7:17pm
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 25 October 2010 at 1:56am | IP Logged | 3
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I think I've read that this is going to be a new Hobgoblin, and that his ID will be revealed in the very first issue of the storyline, in deliberate contrast to the original. I'm hoping that it's not Kingsley, since Roger Stern brought his character arc to a fitting conclusion, and I'd rather not have anyone but him write that particular incarnation of the Hobgoblin anyway. It took Stern years to get the opportunity to clean up all the bad stories people had done with the character since his tenure (Demo-goblin? Really?), so let other writers make up their own version to do with as they please.
I started reading Spider-Man with the Gang War storyline, and have an unshakeable nostalgia for that era, including the Hobgoblin revelation story in ASM #289. Longtime readers seemed to react very negatively to it, since there were so many inconsistencies and contradictions with earlier Hobgoblin stories, but as a new reader I loved all of it. Gang War made it pretty obvious that the Hobgoblin absolutely had to be Ned Leeds, but most of his really outrageous "Hey, look at me! I'm a super-villain!" behavior wasn't really there until Gang War.
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Taavi Suhonen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 April 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 1544
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| Posted: 25 October 2010 at 5:37am | IP Logged | 4
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Demogoblin wasn't a very good idea, but it also wasn't Kingsley*, so that isn't a good argument against anybody else writing the Kingsley Hobgoblin. I agree that Stern is the most suitable writer for Kingsley, but I would trust certain others to handle the character with respect.
*It was a demon that possessed the Macendale Hobgoblin during Inferno and then separated from him.
Edited by Taavi Suhonen on 25 October 2010 at 5:37am
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Greg Woronchak
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 25 October 2010 at 6:45am | IP Logged | 5
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What bothered me at the time was the several 'This issue reveals Hobgoblin's identity' who turned out to be 'fakes'. Too many times of crying wolf, and the fact that the storyline was extended way too long helped me lose interest in the whole saga.
Hobgoblin Lives was a great mini-series, especially on account of George Perez's contribution.
Reflecting on the whole thing makes me realize that Roger Stern may be my favorite Spider-Man writer!
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Joss Wierzbicki
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 May 2009
Posts: 334
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| Posted: 27 October 2010 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | 6
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I don't know if any of you read the last issues of Spectacular Spider-Man vol.1 in which Norman battles Kingsley and Kingsley ends up retiring on a desert island. This dates back to 1997 and it's Kingsley's final appearance in Marvel continuity. BUT !! As I enjoyed as much Stern's portrayal of Hobgoblin as De Falco's (my first French issue of Spidey was when he kidnaps Harry and Liz in exchange for the 'Osborn journals') I had the BLAST of my life when De Falco brought back Kingsley from retirement in 2006 in the last issues of Spider-Girl vol. 1 All his following appearances in the SG books were - to me - EX-CEL-LENT and reminded me so much of the joy I had with the character 25 years ago. The next incarnation of Hobgoblin will certainly pale in comparison as: a) the writing isn't handled by neither Stern nor De Falco b) despite his originality in caricature I DO hate Humberto Ramos' pencils. As the owner of the entire ASM run I will buy it anyway and pray Slott has a good story behind this new character.
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JT Molloy
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Posts: 2092
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| Posted: 27 October 2010 at 3:48pm | IP Logged | 7
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Joss, DEFINITELY. I collected Spider-Girl for awhile, took a break, came back, took a break, yadda yadda.... Then thankfully, picked it up during all the Hobgoblin stuff. It was SO good. (Ditto the Carnage stuff happening at the same time)
Also, Glenn Greenberg co-wrote that Goblin's Gate arc in Spectacular and frequents this board. I routinely tell him how rad that arc was. (Cuz, it was.)
Edited by JT Molloy on 27 October 2010 at 3:50pm
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Adam Hutchinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4502
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| Posted: 27 October 2010 at 4:12pm | IP Logged | 8
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I think Dan Slott is the guy, currently at Marvel, to handle Spider-Man and the new Hobgoblin.
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Emery Calame
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5773
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| Posted: 27 October 2010 at 4:12pm | IP Logged | 9
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I remember getting the Taskmaster and the Hobgoblin mixed up a few times.
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 27 October 2010 at 4:31pm | IP Logged | 10
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Loved "Goblins at the Gate" in Spectacular Spider-Man. I wish they'd collect it along with Hobgoblin Lives! along with Stern's original Hobgoblin story arc, DeFalco's Hobgoblin stories, Gang War and Spider-Man vs. Wolverine.
I've got a letter printed in Spectacular Spider-Man #261, and received a Marvel No-Prize for it, too!
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Juan Jose Colin Arciniega
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6413
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| Posted: 27 October 2010 at 4:41pm | IP Logged | 11
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Wwll...Kingsley was reintroduced into MC2 in Spider-Girl #97...does those stories count?
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Joss Wierzbicki
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 May 2009
Posts: 334
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| Posted: 29 October 2010 at 3:38am | IP Logged | 12
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Of course they do! TO ME they count as much as his previous appearances in Stern's and De Falco's runs!
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Topic Closed)
