Fred,

Why haven't you said on the forum that you'd spoken with Mr De Falco in the first place?! (Though you can't prove it I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and trust you on this one). It would have saved us this nonsensical offensive exchange. For which I apologize.

I'm the one who's pissed at Marvel for having cancelled my favorite series. I assumed Tom had reacted the same way. The man worked on the title + 50 other MC2 titles for 12 years! He had ALL the reasons in the world to be pissed, don't you think?

I guess he isn't because he became weary? He knew the day would come to say farewell to this un-selling title (for shame) ? He's more of a diplomat than I am? Perhaps because a fan (like me) legitimately over-reacts and an old timer like him has mellowed over the years?

I have the final 16 episodes of SG to read yet. Will savor them til the bitter end...

Truce, Fred?

Sincerely, Joss

Joss, why would I need to bring up eith public or private correspondance with DeFalco in order to respond to your posted statements about his unspoken feelings towards Marvel?

I actually would expect someone in the position of creator and write of this character to be somewhat greatful to Marvel for giving her as many reprieves and new lives as she's received. I am disappointed that it didn't sell more, but there are many titles over the years that I thought were incredible, only to find that I was in the minority of consumers and watched these titles get axed.

I appreciate your owning the faus pas. That is a behavior that is all too rare online. No truce necessary. It is over. :)

Francesco, I can see where an "out-of-story" solution is better; an editorial edict stating that the encounter between the Juggernaut and She-Hulk did NOT take place and is not to be referred to again. Hey, I'd like to see one stating that the entirety of Chuck Austen's Marvel career didn't occur.* In particular, I could do without his issue-long manifesto in favor of terrorism as delivered by Polaris. Storytelling decompression being what it is these days, the whole of the issue is given over to her single point of view. It isn't until the next issue that anyone is allowed to speak to take issue with anything she has said. An entire issue of the X-Men telling us the terrorists are right and completely justified in any and all actions they choose to take against us... There ya go, folks! Wasn't that something? Come back next month!

Yes, wise writers would simply let it be. Trouble is, writing, especially serial fiction writing, is often all about opportunism. Where can I build on what's come before? What did someone else say or leave unsaid that I can use to create this next issue? What's been done wrong that I can put right? And so on... Each story is a link in an ever-growing chain. Writers working to forge that chain inevitably look back to build forward.

Even if we all agreed, Gentleman's Agreement, that single encounter never happened, the fact that it saw print leaves open the possibility to similar characterization in the future, especially in those instances where the writer wants to "establish" his bad-ass bad guy as the baddest bad-ass on the block by showing him bagging Jen once again (She's into that, right?) and maybe a few more besides... See? That guy owns these bitches! Booya!

The trouble is, sometime, somewhere, some editor is going to think that's cool. That's a valid take on who she is. And the issue they will go back to prove it is Austen's. Even if we're "not allowed" to talk about it, we all still saw it happen. That's what this character does, right?

In-story, the characterization Austen established had to be taken down. Had to be, if Jen was ever going to operate as a free-spirited, sexually open, yet responsible character ever again. She couldn't be allowed to become a morally-blind, slutty pushover with a dimbulb muscle fetish.

Slott had to show she was innocent in a public forum for the same reasons lawyers always say their client is eager to disprove the charges against them in a public court, so that when the charges are raised again, the record shows them to be false.

It's not a perfect fix. Scandals take page one in 20 point type. Retractions appear just before the classifieds. It doesn't prevent someone from building on the Juggernaut encounter and ignoring Slott's response. It doesn't stop someone from coming up with a more "bulletproof" version of Jen as a slut. I, myself, am not crazy about Jen's previously unseen Earth-A counterpart being portrayed as a joyriding sleaze, but it beats saddling Jen with that label.

Historically, Marvel continuity has been addressed in-story. "The Whizzer and Miss America are not Pietro and Wanda's parents, but here's why they thought so..." "Arcade struck a match on Doom's armor? I don't think so..." "Lockjaw can't talk! That's ridiculous! Here's what was really happening..." (Okay, not the best example in these parts...) Still, it's been shown. This is how Marvel writers deal with these issues.

Ignoring past events that don't gibe well with this month's issue or a character's overall personality has traditionally been a more DC approach. It's one that I favor, by the way, but Slott's answer is, I think, a fun, upbeat Marvel-style solution to a problem that should never have occured in the first place.

Um, what was the thread topic again? Hobgoblin? Uh... (What do I have to say about the Hobgoblin?) ... Um, I never thought the pale yellow and orange color thing worked... Also, a less interesting glider design... Far less. Um. That's about it...

* By the way, I read and enjoyed some of Austen's independent stuff. And Phil Foglio's too! I still want every page, panel, caption, and comma those two ever wrote for the major companies stricken from the face of the Earth. Nothing personal. It's just, those are some God-awful comics floating around out there...

Francesco, thanks for the response! I can see your point as well. Slott's She-Hulk was a humorously-oriented book, so his solution was intended, I think, to be somewhat "funny," but I can see where it might not be to everyone's taste. For what it's worth, I don't believe it's been referenced since.

I will say that I am glad Ned Leeds got out from under the shadow of having been the Hobgoblin. For far too long it seemed that every single person Peter ever met in his civilian life was a super-villain in disguise out to kill Spider-Man. I keep expecting Glory Grant to show up with ninja training or a giant robot or something...

••

…we saw more of the "DC-ization" of Marvel. The stories you mention, along with Peter growing four extra arms, traveling to the Savage Land to basically replay KING KONG, traveling thru time, etc, were very much akin to the kinds of stories Superman and Batman had been slipping into for years.

Unless writers and editors stay constantly on their guard, they can very easily slip into writing generic stories that do not spring from the characters. Sadly, many readers had been going down that road for a long time themselves. Remember when I took on WONDER WOMAN, and there were instant complaints that I would be "recycling She-Hulk stories" -- as if ANY of the tales I had told in Jennifer's book would be appropriate to Diana! But at that point readers had been subjected to at least thirty years worth of stories with the lead characters being shoehorned into whatever tale the writer wanted to tell.

However, I believe rather than actually showing that alterate Earth or characters from it interacting with the regular versions of DC heroes, they just said later on that all those stories actually took place on that alternate Earth. I don't see why M****l couldn't have done the same thing.

Brian, DC's "Earth-B" was an invention of the letters columns. When readers wrote in to express their confusion over the latest Bob Haney story and say it couldn't happen on either Earth-1 or Earth-2, the editors responded by saying it obviously took place on a parallel earth where such things could happen. Readers were free to accept this as given or simply smile at the editor's deft* evasions. As far as I know, Earth-B never appeared on-panel** in any storytelling context.

Such as approach would not work at Marvel, especially in an X-Men series.The Juggernaut was shown with Jen, got out of bed, and went with the X-Men to go fight in their latest big, lollapalooza-non-stop-open-all-night crossover event. Every event shown is a link in a chain. DC's discordant stories were generally one-offs and stand-alone stories. There are no pauses in a mainstream Marvel series to allow for any single event to be isolated and excised. Either all of it somehow happened or all of it didn't. 

* and often condescending
** Earth-B may have finally been made an in-story literal reality during the recent deluge of Crisis revisitations. They did show an Earth which was home to the TV series versions of their characters. The Cathy Lee Crosby Wonder Woman was shown fighting alongside the Debra Winger Wonder Girl...