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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
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Posted: 07 October 2010 at 8:41am | IP Logged | 1
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'Member when DC decided it was necessary to blow up everything, to create a clean slate, because multiple versions of the characters had made things too "confusing"?Once again, its all fanthink, and represents the level to which DC (and Marvel) have sunk. Even Mark "Captain Multiverse" Gruenwald would think it was out of control!
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Andrew Hess Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 9845
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Posted: 07 October 2010 at 9:05am | IP Logged | 2
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I didn't vote yet, but clearly
[x] Man of Steel
Birthright was an attempt (I think?) to re-SilverAge Superman, which had already been done completely in all of the monthlies since JB left (Krypto, Supergirl, Kandor, Krypton villains, etc).
Haven't read Secret Origin yet, but what is the point of re-doing the origin after it was redone a few years ago in Birthright? And now Strazynski is doing it agin, when the ink isn't really dry yet on the Secret Origin monthly?
This is what I didn't get when Crisis happened. I had assumed that, once the decision to make a "clean slate," that there was some person or group that then outlined how everything would work from here on out, and that (here's the tricky part) there would then be an adherence to this. Not a fully written set of stories mind you ("by issue 10 introduce girlfriend") but general rules (this is how this character's powers work from now on, this is the new origin from now on).
But clearly that wasn't the case. Nearly immediately I could tell that characters/situations hadn't been thought out and that it was all being made up after the fact, without there being a plan in place. Good in a couple of cases (like Man of Steel), but bad in nearly every other (Wonder Woman, Legion, Justice League, Hawkman, etc).
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Frank Gurstelle Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 November 2006 Posts: 224
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Posted: 07 October 2010 at 10:37am | IP Logged | 3
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Frank, not sure what you're trying to say with those panels. But notice how Mr. Byrne drops the information in while telling a good story. This isn't an origin issue, or even a story about Superman at all. It's all about Luthor's ego. And despite all Lex's resources and cunning, he isn't able to see past the disguise because he can't bring himself to believe that someone so powerful would hide behind a human facade. Are there tidbits like the vibrating trick (only done because Superman knew the camera thing was following him, IIRC)? Yes. And I love those. But the story has little to do with the Clark identity and lots to do with Luthor's character, which was just being established post-Crisis at this point. My initial thought was, if JB hates stories explaining why people can't see through the disguise of Superman, why did he do one himself? Was he directed to by DC (as his post could suggest). But upon further inspection it would seem he was setting up the "They just don't" aspect (which he admits he prefers), in a story itself, all the while highlighting Lex Luthor. That is why I agree with you, and even added (before you posted), it is not the story you tell, but how you tell it. Or, in other words, it was a nice story told by JB, even if it, by JB's own admission, is a story that should not be told (i.e. why can't people see through the disguise? answer: they just don't). Later, when the vibrating face thing was brought up, I posted that it was only two panels, trying to make the point that that aspect was only that, two panels, not an entire story. When JB did not respond I sort of mind read that JB agreed with me, or at least did not take offense. Anyway, I apologize if I was not more clear. BTW, upon seeing those two panels again I wonder why the big "S" didn't just destroy that camera with his heat vision?
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Matthew McCallum Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2711
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Posted: 07 October 2010 at 11:09am | IP Logged | 4
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BTW, upon seeing those two panels again I wonder why the big "S" didn't just destroy that camera with his heat vision? Perhaps because Superman doesn't needlessly destroy property?
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Emery Calame Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5773
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Posted: 07 October 2010 at 11:17am | IP Logged | 5
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Superman didn't destroy that camera because he's Superman and not "Captain Grumpy Dick-Head Man". Superman finds a better way to protect his identity that doesn't victimize others.
And now I await the various classic "Super Dickery" links to prove me wrong.
Edited by Emery Calame on 07 October 2010 at 11:19am
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Frank Gurstelle Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 November 2006 Posts: 224
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Posted: 07 October 2010 at 11:30am | IP Logged | 6
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That's why he is Superman! Ma and Pa Kent taught him well.
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Don Zomberg Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 November 2005 Posts: 2355
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Posted: 07 October 2010 at 11:51am | IP Logged | 7
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Ma and Pa Kent taught him well. That's crazy talk. The whole point of Superman Earth One is so that JMS can FINALLY reveal just why someone like Clark uses his powers to help people instead of play professional sports and get nooky. I'm on the edge of my seat.
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Paul Anthony Llossas Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 August 2005 Posts: 1600
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Posted: 07 October 2010 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 8
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Man of Steel for me.
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Michael Lee Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Australia Posts: 1133
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Posted: 20 October 2010 at 2:20am | IP Logged | 9
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[X] Man of Steel [ ] Birthright [ ] Secret Origin
Haven't read Birthright (and don't think I will given the comments posted here). Secret Origin bored me silly. I was looking for something new, and it just ended up being same old same old.
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Stephen Churay Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009 Location: United States Posts: 8369
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Posted: 20 October 2010 at 3:41am | IP Logged | 10
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Haven't read Birthright (and don't think I will given the comments posted here). ---- Yeah Michael, you're not missing anything. I'm curious to know, how much of that story was Waid's and how much was editorial? It may very well be all Waid's but I've read interviews with writers and artists who have really been disappointed with how their time on the Superman titles went due to editorial interference. But I'm really just speculating.
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Greg McPhee Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5089
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Posted: 20 October 2010 at 6:42am | IP Logged | 11
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Two things I really disliked were the revamps to The Parasite and Metallo. The Parasite is now just a Homer Simpson looking clone who got his powers through a Kryptonite irradiated doughnut, and seems to provide none of the menace his pre and post Crisis counterparts did. Metallo has gone from being the unstoppable cyborg war machine back to his horrible green pre-Crisis look, and is basically Lois Lane's creepy ex-boyfriend.
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Paul Greer Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 18 August 2004 Posts: 14191
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Posted: 20 October 2010 at 7:09am | IP Logged | 12
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Man of Steel is my Superman. I've never bothered to read the other two.
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