| Author |
|
Steve Ogden
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1263
|
| Posted: 03 October 2010 at 10:03am | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
Sorry, Chad I did not see your post. But, Jason is right about the interview, it was TCJ issue #53 (I think). It was more than what he said about Don Heck. He also criticized Dick Ayers, Gene Colan and believe it or not John Buscema. I have not read the interview in a long time but he he said something to the effect of that Gerry Conway destroyed the comics industry and was a no talent writer.
That interview he did was pretty hateful (IMO). Like I said earlier, really mean-spirited. It is always an weird feeling when you read an interview like that from a man who is very intelligent and brilliant when in come to the use of the English language and then become very base with his criticisms.
The backlash of letters was published in TCJ #57 (1980). If nothing else, issue #57 has a great interview with JB w/ photos and art.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Chad Carter
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 June 2005
Posts: 9584
|
| Posted: 03 October 2010 at 12:42pm | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
I'd have to read the interview. I find it almost impossible to believe Ellison knew who he was talking about regarding Ayers, Colan, and Buscema. I don't want to defend idiotic comments from a brilliant dude, but Ellison has always been a spasmodic knee-jerk in some cases and, well, it's hard to say what he was reacting to. If somebody has a scan of this or otherwise can type out the appropriate bits, I'd like to see where Ellison dumps all over these guys. Because frankly I can't buy it.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Steve Ogden
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1263
|
| Posted: 03 October 2010 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
Chad, I will have to dig around to find the issue. The thread will probably be dead by the time I can find it.
Even you read the letters in issue #57 (responses from the interview) you will get more than just a gist of the interview. Harlan replies to most of the letters that disagree with his interview.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
David Kingsley Kingsley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 June 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1098
|
| Posted: 03 October 2010 at 2:30pm | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
My wife and I met him back in 2003, and he was the nicest guy. It was a very small (30 or so people) audience at a library in Ohio, near where he grew up. We got our picture taken with him and he signed autographs. When he found out that a friend of mine who was with me was "a comic shop guy", Ellison off-handedly asked if my friend could locate an issue of Kabuki with a Steranko cover. When my friend found it, he mailed it to Ellison, and Ellison called him personally to thank him.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Paul Simpson Simpson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 April 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 939
|
| Posted: 03 October 2010 at 11:44pm | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
Does anyone know how the plagiarism suit Ellison filed against Warren Publishing turned out?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4648
|
| Posted: 04 October 2010 at 1:24am | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
According to The Warren Companion "a settlement was reached" between Ellison and Jim Warren after the lawsuit was filed. Nothing more specific is said. Warren writer Jim Stenstrum suggests the lawsuit may have accelerated the demise of Warren Publishing.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Paul Simpson Simpson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 April 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 939
|
| Posted: 04 October 2010 at 7:52am | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
Thanks Jason for the information.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Gary Olson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 September 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 382
|
| Posted: 07 October 2010 at 10:02pm | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
Here's another Harlan Ellison anecdote from Syncon '83... One evening, Ellison read one of his stories, about a man who passes through different lives, different incarnations, consciously aware that there's always a slight difference... i.e., his hair is parted on the other side, or as Harlan read: "He now liked brussels sprouts". When Harlan read that bit, a young woman in the audience... up towards the front, and probably on the sunny side of 20, burst out with laughter: "Tee hee hee hee!" Then, the following day, Ellison was giving a general talk, and was on the subject of which fruits and vegetables were funny. "Apples aren't funny," he said, "Bananas are funny..." Then he looked over at the young woman, who was back in the same spot. "On the other hand, young So-and-so here thinks brussels sprouts are funny!" She started giggling again, "Tee hee hee hee heee!" Harlan stepped off the small podium, walked over to her, microphone in hand, leaned down into her face as she giggled, and intoned... "Brussels... sprouts!" She was beside herself... speechless... with laughter, as was everyone there.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Matthew McCallum
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 2711
|
| Posted: 10 October 2010 at 11:19am | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
The Don Heck portion of the Infamous Harlan Ellison Interview from The Comics Journal 53 (as reprinted in The Comics Journal Library 6):
WARNING: There is some strong language in this interview!
Harlan Ellison: There are guys who've got very minimal talents and it doesn't matter whether they corrupt it or not. I could name them and would happily name them, but why bother? There's no sense kicking cripples. I mean, all you have to do is open up comic books from Marvel and DC and take a look at them. You see these guys have a very minor-league talent and, to say, "Well, these people are wasting their talent" is ridiculous. I mean, they're never going to be any better. What's the name of the guy who used to do... over at Marvel... he use to do... [Pause]... the worst artist in the field.
Gary Groth: Don Heck?
HE: Don Heck. [Laughter]
GG: This is going to look good.
HE: Well, of course. You say, "Who's the worst artist in comics?" "Don Heck!" Of course. Absolutely.
GG: I'll tell you a true story: A very high-positioned editor at DC told me three weeks ago that he respected Don Heck very much.
HE: Because he turned in the work on time? Of course. That does not deserve respect. I mean, a dray mule can do that. You know, for whatever other flaws and faults Neal Adams has, and God knows he has many -- he's driven almost everybody bugfuck at one time or another -- Neal is an artist, and Neal is conscientious and Neal cares, and when they rush him Neal turns out dreck and he hates it and he hates himself for it because he has the soul of an artist and he's been a seminal influence and he's a man capable of good work. Jeff Jones was driven away. Bernie Wrightson was driven away. Barry Smith was driven away. [Michael] Kaluta was driven away. All the really good guys, they vanished. They couldn't take it any more. And of course, the industry says, "Well, man, they were irresponsible." Irresponsible is what the fuckin' river merchants call artists who will not kowtow to artificial fuckin' deadlines. That's what they call them -- irresponsible, crazy, hard to deal with, impossible. Five thousand Don Hecks are not worth one Neal Adams. And I don't know Don Heck. I'm not even sure I've ever met Don Heck, and I mean him no harm when I say this. I'm talking about his work, talking about what I see on the page. Who was that guy who did Nova? Was that Heck?
GG: No.
HE: That was Ayers?
GG: Wolfman wrote it, and who the hell drew that? I don't know. It was awful.
HE: Awful! Wasn't it Heck?
GG: Dick Ayers or someone.
HE: Yeah, it was somebody like Dick Ayers. It may have been Dick Ayers.
[The artist in question was Sal Buscema.]
GG: It's all the same.
HE: Yeah, and even guys like Gene Colan. There's a man who had an interesting talent -- on time, on time, on time -- and he pissed it away.
GG: Gene Colan and Don Heck: Isn't it just a matter of Colan having a little more talent but being totally unwilling to channel that talent in any meaningful direction? I mean, Colan's the better illustrator, but that's about all.
HE: Yeah, well, that's what I say, there's a genuine talent there which he's never done anything with. He got to a place and he did a thing and that's all he did. And it's like Neil Simon. People talk about how great a playwright Neil Simon is. Neil Simon bites the big one. He's the worst fuckin' playwright on the planet. He writes cheap, shallow shit. He found himself a niche and he can do it and he can do it facilely and he does it and that's what's happened to Gene Colan.
Edited by Matthew McCallum on 10 October 2010 at 12:04pm
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 18098
|
| Posted: 10 October 2010 at 11:27am | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
Forgive me if I don't respect the opinions of two guys who don't know Sal Buscema was the artist on Nova.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Matthew McCallum
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 2711
|
| Posted: 10 October 2010 at 11:56am | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
The Michael Fleisher portion of the Infamous Harlan Ellison Interview -- which prompted the lawsuit -- from The Comics Journal 53 (as reprinted in The Comics Journal Library 6):
WARNING: There is VERY strong language in this interview!
Harlan Ellison: Steve Gerber is crazy as a bed bug.
Gary Groth: Is he?
HE: Yes. He's as crazy as a bed bug. And if he isn't, Mike Fleisher is. Did you find that review in Publishers Weekly [of Fleisher's new book, Chasing Hairy] that I told you about?
GG: No, I couldn't get the damn issue.
HE: I read it to Len [Wein] and Marv [Wolfman] when they came out to the house. Their hair stood on end. I want to tell you something. The Publishers Weekly review said, "This is the product of a sick mind. It is so twisted and nauseating, it has no -- absolutely no -- redeeming social value." It's a book about a couple of guys who like to beat up women and make them go down on them. In the end they pick up some woman -- a hippy or whatever the fuck she is -- and set fire to her and she loves it so much she gives them a blow job. Which is essentially what the review said about the book. It said, "This book is so fuckin' twisted, there is no point even in discussing it. It is beyond the pale." Who is the publisher?
GG: St. Martin's.
HE: They're an A-1 publisher. I mean, they're not a a top rank, but they're a very reputable house. Fleisher, when he was doing the Spectre -- and I guess he did Aquaman too, didn't he?
GG: No, I don't think so. Steve Skeates did Aquaman.
HE: He did the Spectre and he did something else.
GG: And he does Jonah Hex, which is really twisted.
HE: Oh, yeah, right, right. This is a guy -- it's like looking at the paintings of Giger. There is a genuine, twisted mentality at work here, and it's fascinating to look at. And I understand he's a very nice, pleasant man.
GG: I understand he looks like an accountant.
HE: Aren't all Texas Tower snipers like that? [In cornball accent]: "He went to church every Sunday. He loved his mother. I have no idea why he cut up those 135 people and mailed part of them off to other people COD. I don't know why he did that. But he's a good boy, a good Christian boy." Fleisher -- I think he's certifiable. That is a libelous thing to say, and I say it with some humor. I've never met the man. But, what I see in Fleisher's work and in Giger's work... I mean, Giger's clearly deranged. I mean, look at [his work]. Show [his work] to any psychaitrist. All of his visuals for Alien are sexual and psychosexual in nature. All of it. Endless vaginas and fallopian tubes and burning penises, and all kinds of fascinating stuff that makes life worth living. But, I mean, he's really a nut case. His personal life, too. He's got the skeleton of his second mistress in his home. I'll tell you what's really scary. Dan O'Bannon told me how [Giger] claimed the body [of his mistress] -- apparently there was nobody to claim the body, so he claimed it. At that, you say "OK, he loved her. He'll bury her." No, he doesn't bury her. He takes her and he had all the flesh taken off. You know how? Carpet beetles. You know what carpet beetles are?
GG: They eat flesh?
HE: They eat flesh. They're used by museums to clean the flesh off skeletons. And they pick it to the bone. They're like piranhas. He used carpet beetles to clean her off and he's go her now as an artifact in his apartment. Cute. Cute.
GG: Did you read the Jonah Hex story where Fleisher had Hex killed and stuffed in the end?
HE: [Laughter] That's fascinating. What's interesting is that the thing that makes Fleisher's stuff interesting was the same reason Robert E. Howard was interesting and nobody else can imitate him. Because Howard was crazy as a bed bug. He was insane. This was a man who was a huge bear of a man, what had these great dream fantasies of barbarians and mightily thewed warriors and Celts and Vikings and riding in the Arabian desert and Almuric, Conan, Kull, and all these weird ooky-booky words. He lived in Cross Plains, Texas in the middle of the Depression, and he never went more than 20 or 30 miles from his home. He lived with he mother until his mother died and then he went down and sat in his car and blew his brains out. Now, that's a sick person. This is not a happy, adjusted person. That shows up in Howard's work. You car read a Conan story as opposed to -- I mean, even as good as Fritz Leiber is, Fritz is logical and sane and a nice man. Or take the lesser writers, all the guys who do the Conan rip-offs and imitations, which are such garbage, because all they are are manque. They can't imitate Howard because they're not crazy. They're just writers writing stories because they admired Howard, but they don't understand you have to be bugfuck to write that way. Lovecraft -- you can tell a Lovecraft story from a Ramsey Campbell story, from all the rest of those shlobos trying to imitate him, all the nameless yutzes shrieking like Lovecraft, they still have not got the lunatic mentality of Lovecraft. And the same for Fleisher. He really is a derange-o. And as a consequence, he is probably the only one writing who is interesting. The Spectre stuff was fuckin' blood-chilling, which it was supposed to be. I mean, he really did the Spectre, man. For the first time since the '40s, that goddamn strip was dynamite. And the first time they looked at what they were publishing, they said, "My God, we have turned loose this lunatic on the world," and they ran him off. And that was a shame because Fleisher should have been kept on the Spectre FOREVER. It was just the most perfectly nauseous ghoulish thing for him.
[McCallum edit: As proved in the lawsuit, Publishers Weekly ran no such language in their review.]
Edited by Matthew McCallum on 10 October 2010 at 12:12pm
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Matthew McCallum
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 2711
|
| Posted: 10 October 2010 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
Jason Czeskleba wrote:
I've never understood why Fleisher filed that lawsuit. It seems clear that Ellison's comments about Fleisher were intended to be complimentary, and that he was not seriously questioning Fleisher's sanity.
The comments about Heck are ugly, but are part and parcel of the thuggish environment Groth cultivated in his magazine back then. |
|
|
Reading those selections of the interview again after all this time, the part on Don Heck seems eerily like a forecast of the industry to come, where growing roses has because more important than meeting deadlines.
You read the section on Fleisher, and man, how could he NOT sue?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
|
|
Topic Closed)
