Jason: Nathan, you said you own a copy of AF #15 that you've read several times.  How much did you pay for it, if you don't mind me asking?

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I got it in the 80's for a very fair price.

That seemed like a fair price for used comics!

Fred: If one were a collector of guns and a gamesman, they might be motivated to purchase an antique flintlock pistol that is in prestine condition. They may buy it for a pretty penny, not for investment purposes, but because it is so damn cool to have.... would anyone expect them to fire off said gun because that is what guns are made for?

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That comparison doesn't really work.

That's like asking Jodi if she would go wander around the dessert in her Obi Wan robe.

I imagine firing the gun would ruin it's "prestine" condition because of the gunpowder. The gun discharge would also ruin it's "prestine" condition.

However...

If the gun was in a plastic sealed case, I would open it and hold it. Examine it. Pull the trigger...if that didn't ruin the weapon (I don't know much about guns). I want to feel the antique wood and metal in my hands...not a chunk of plastic.

That seemed like a fair price for used comics!

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Ok, I was ripped off! :)

"If the gun was in a plastic sealed case, I would open it and hold it. Examine it. Pull the trigger...if that didn't ruin the weapon (I don't know much about guns). I want to feel the antique wood and metal in my hands...not a chunk of plastic."

And you can still do that with a slabbed comic. Anyway can open it anytime they want. Does the value immediately drop? No. Because you can spend the $15 to get it reappreaised and reslabbed at anytime. As long as you are taking care of it, then at time of reslabbing, the value should be the same.

SER: I suppose my desire to own such a rare comic would be to have the sensation of reading it and touching it -- obviously with care

Except, I bought Amazing Spidey #22, which was slabbed. Like a few others I popped it open. Part of disassembling the packing requires cutting the book out of an additional, sealed bag. During this time, I slightly cut the book. I didn't cry, scream in outrage or grief.... though it gives me more pause for thought in regards to pulling AF #15 out as soon as I get it.

>>That comparison doesn't really work.

Nathan, the comparison works perfectly.

>> I imagine firing the gun would ruin it's "prestine" condition because of the gunpowder. The gun discharge would also ruin it's "prestine" condition.

>>However...

>>If the gun was in a plastic sealed case, I would open it and hold it. Examine it. Pull the trigger...if that didn't ruin the weapon (I don't know much about guns). I want to feel the antique wood and metal in my hands...not a chunk of plastic

Unless you are using gunpowder and firing it, you aren't using it for its intended purpose. Guns aren't made to be held and inspected. They are made to be fired. Anything less is not the use that the gun was initially created for.

Nathan, the comparison works perfectly.

>> I imagine firing the gun would ruin it's "prestine" condition because of the gunpowder. The gun discharge would also ruin it's "prestine" condition.

>>However...

>>If the gun was in a plastic sealed case, I would open it and hold it. Examine it. Pull the trigger...if that didn't ruin the weapon (I don't know much about guns). I want to feel the antique wood and metal in my hands...not a chunk of plastic

Unless you are using gunpowder and firing it, you aren't using it for its intended purpose. Guns aren't made to be held and inspected. They are made to be fired. Anything less is not the use that the gun was initially created for.

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Guns weren't made to be held and inspected -- and comics weren't made to be entombed in plastic. You're fighting against your own argument, here.

"Production for use" is not applicable with some items, in any case. That antique flintlock, you imagine. Before we could even consider loading and firing it, we would have to know its condition, so holding and inspecting it would be mandatory. Having completed that inspection, we might well find that time has not been kind to the old thing, and, like most of the antique firearms / own, loading and firing it would be a good way to blow your own hands off. Which would NOT be the use for which the weapon was created.

Some things, because of their antiquity, require special care and handling. Intricate, hand made weapons are among these. But comic books are not nearly as frail as some people like to present them as being. As I have noted before, the oldest comic in my collection is a copy of BATMAN 13, from 1942. So that's a comic book that is 68 years old. I keep it on a shelf with some other comics. It's not slabbed. It's not even bagged. And it's every bit as readable today as it was when I acquired it 40 years ago. The pages are yellowed, the edges are roughed up -- but no more than when I bought it. I take it down every once in a while and page thru it. Doing so always makes me smile.

Production for use.

John, I'm not arguing agasinst my own argument. I was responding specifically to Nathan's statement that the gun analogy I posited WASN'T analogous. There are collectors of guns out there. They buy vintage weapons with no intention of firing them, but because they enjoy guns, history or whatever motivates their desire to own the gun. My desire to have this book doesn't rest primarily on the need to break it open immediately and read through the pages. I've never argued anything else that I'm aware of.

*Edited for typo*

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He said it WASN'T analogous.