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Topic: Bring back the yellow oval! (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 04 August 2010 at 5:26am | IP Logged | 1  

A Small Digression…

It's important to remember Why Things Happen. In comics, a lot of what happens has to do with the process by which the comics are manufactured, and not any conscious decisions by the talent involved.

This is how Batman's cape (as well as portions of Spider-Man's and the X-Men's costumes) turned from black to blue. Artists are forever chasing deadlines, and spotting blacks (as filling in black areas is called) is time consuming. Unconsciously, artists will start leaving out more and more black and, since blue is most often the default highlight color, what was black will become blue -- and often literally. That's how the Beast became blue. He was gray, he turned black, the blacks were slowly dropped, and eventually writers started referring to him as blue.*

And it doesn't stop there. Batman in his early days, as the blacks started to disappear, at least had DARK blue highlights. But dark blue requires the separators to make more than one pass. The standard CMYK palette can only create darker shades by mixing gradients of the four basic colors. Again, time consuming, and so it begins to disappear. What was dark blue, becomes a much lighter blue, because that lighter blue is a single color.

It's not just blue/black, either. Flip thru early issues of FANTASTIC FOUR and watch as Sue's hair goes from pale yellow to just yellow. Watch the Thing's hide change from red/brown to orange. And watch as everybody slowly develops blue eyes! Its all about less work for the colorists and the separators. And when deadlines are an issue, "less work" is a driving force.

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*This is deeply ironic. The Beast's original gray coloration required the use of a K tone (CMYK), and K tones cost more. So he turned black, as a story element, in order to be able to use the cheaper blue highlights. Those who insist that blue is always blue in comics, need to check that scene, where Hank awakens to find his fur colored blue, and the copy declares that it has turned black!

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 04 August 2010 at 5:43am | IP Logged | 2  

This brings to mind for me a difference between reading comicbooks as a child and as an adult. As a kid, I didn't care very much if at all about ovals and colors etc. -- the glorious pictures and words were a 4th of July extravaganza every page. I started reading Batman in an odd way, having in my hands at the same time reprints from 1939, older issues from the mid-60s, and contemporary Neal Adams' tales: every one was equally Batman to me, without any conflict over the differing styles. Whatever his varying ears, capes, colors... I was so utterly thrilled to be in his "presence" that I just didn't care, even if I did notice.

But as an adult, in my experience anyway, when that thrill isn't nearly as intense, and niggling questions pop up, it's a definitive pleasure to learn about the process of making comicbooks and by thus paying attention to "the man behind the curtain" understanding that irksome grown-up doubts (of a sort) essentially have no substance.
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MIke Keane
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Posted: 04 August 2010 at 6:33am | IP Logged | 3  

JB: "How many of the hoods in Gotham do you reckon are marksmen? How many,with the Batman bearing down on them, would really take the trouble toaim? And how many, if they did, would aim at his heart, rather than,say, the lower half of his face -- the only part of his body they KNOWisn't armored?"

================================================

I gotta say JB i think you are over analysing it a bit.

Surley it is a conceit of the genre that they do not shoot his face?
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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 04 August 2010 at 6:46am | IP Logged | 4  

The conceit is that no matter where they shoot - he's not there.
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MIke Keane
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Posted: 04 August 2010 at 6:56am | IP Logged | 5  

Kevin: The conceit is that no matter where they shoot - he's not there.

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Sorry Kevin, but i guess we disagree on this.

To me a convention of the genre is pretty much anything we accept in comics that would not necessarily work in real life.

examples:

Captain America not using a gun
Wonder woman not falling out of her bustier(as has been discussed here before)

etc
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Paulo Pereira
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Posted: 04 August 2010 at 7:41am | IP Logged | 6  

 MIke wrote:
I gotta say JB i think you are over analysing it a bit.

Surley it is a conceit of the genre that they do not shoot his face?

The conceit is that Batman avoids getting shot at all, something Frank Miller disregarded by treating the yellow oval as something that was there to draw fire.


Edited by Paulo Pereira on 04 August 2010 at 7:42am
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Tony Midyett
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Posted: 04 August 2010 at 9:18am | IP Logged | 7  

This will really muddy the waters---what if all Batman comics were printed in black & white?  Would you care whether or not he had an oval?
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Stephen Robinson
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Posted: 04 August 2010 at 12:24pm | IP Logged | 8  

When I was a kid, I noticed that Batman's costume was slightly different in DETECTIVE (drawn by Norm Breyfogle) than it was in BATMAN (drawn by Jim Aparo).

Breyfogle's Batman wore a cape and cowl that was either a very dark (navy) blue or could be understood to be "black with blue highlights" (as seen later in B:TAS).

Aparo's Batman wore a cape and cowl that was inarguably blue and a light blue at that.

I preferred Breyfogle's Batman during that period because the "darker" costume just seemed right. Though, he began drawing the costume a lighter blue as time progressed, as well.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 04 August 2010 at 4:26pm | IP Logged | 9  

JB: your small digression is a fascinating post!

BTW, 'your' Batman (which I take to be pretty much a Dick Sprang Batman) is so the polar the opposite of mine! But that's how these things work... it's like everyone has 'their' Doctor (Who).

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Chad Carter
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Posted: 04 August 2010 at 6:06pm | IP Logged | 10  

 

Is the mixing colors thing the reason why Superman seemed to be a "light" blue to me, in one comic, and "dark" blue in others.

What is Superman's proper blue? I always loved the lighter version, if that's accurate:

 

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Chad Carter
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Posted: 04 August 2010 at 6:16pm | IP Logged | 11  

 

It's funny to me about "the first version is Your Version." The reason is, as a kid, I didn't notice any difference except a nominal one between Adam West Batman and SuperFriends Batman. I mean to say, it never bothered me in the least. In fact, I was surprised in adult life looking back on Batman how different the television Batman is. In my mind, he was "just" Batman.

I also didn't think West Batman was stupid, a snide comment about superheroes or derogatory. Nor Robin for that matter. I don't get disgusted as so many Batman fans do. Dick Sprang Batman is The Batman, to me. The gap between Sprang, West, Adams and Timm does not seem gargantuan. I accept the character on the quality of his stories, not on whether the details match what I believe they should be.

I will say, however, that artists can actually distract me with their deformed takes on Batman. Redundancy in the emblem, bizarre quirks to satisfy an arteest's desires, that gets to me in my adult world.

Maybe I just wasn't very observant as a kid, but I feel like Batman was pretty much accurate by artists most of the time. There was a standard and it was respected, most of the time. Even Adam West.

Without a standard, you get interpretation. And that leads to some moronic-looking comic books. 

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Tony Tower
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Posted: 04 August 2010 at 9:48pm | IP Logged | 12  

I feel about "oval-less" the same way I feel about Captain Marvel's jacket flap - I loved it years ago when it was a once-in-a-while special thing (in Batman's case signifying early in the career or Earth-2), but have become a bit bored with it by its becoming the omnipresent standard.
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