That thing sure was a disappointment, wasn't it?

Tell me about it, Jason! Here's the review I wrote on Amazon.com back in 2004 about the trade (a review which earned 10 out of 10 helpful votes, I might add):

This is a project that should have been a new classic, but falls well short of that mark by a misguided and ultimately failed attempt at pandering to the perceived wants of current comics readership.

This book features two superb craftsmen returning to the title where they earned their reputations 30 years ago. Think of O'Neal and Adams reuniting on Batman, or Claremont and Byrne going back to the X-Men. Anticipation warms the heart and gets the blood pumping. You know it will never be as good as you remember, but certainly it'll be much better than most of what's offered on the bookshelf today. Unfortunately, that didn't prove to be the case, and sadder still, it could easily have been otherwise.

The work starts off strong, with Moench's taut pacing and spot-on dialogue, and Gulacy's strong storytelling steering your eye, and then it veers terribly off-course. The introduction of Morgan Spetz and his Omega team of over-muscled/under-dressed WWF cast-offs jars the book from "realistic" spy thriller to virtual parody. The Spetz subplot seems completely forced and doesn't ring at all true to the rest of the piece, even as a failed attempt at comic relief. It's like Moench submitted his original script to Marvel and the editors convinced him he needed these steroid-popping oafs to attract the 12-year-olds (who shouldn't be reading this "Mature Audience" title in the first place). Their inclusion slows the pace to a crawl and dumbs-down the plot, leaving the reader with a sour aftertaste of disappointment and frustration at a glorious storytelling opportunity lost.

Unlike the original source material that still resonates in the minds of collectors 30 years later, this current offering is cranial candyfloss, empty intellectual calories that will have completely faded from your memory before your next meal.

It's a good Saturday afternoon read, but unlikely a book you'll ever pick up again.

"I'm still hard-pressed to name something that was quite as ambitious as Watchmen was (in American comics, anyway) that pre-dates it, in regards to being a full-blown superhero novel."

The operative word there presumably being "superhero". 

Cerebus:Church and State, which Dave Sim had completed by this point, is much more ambitious and complex, and also more innovative in its expression. Indeed, for the first 200 issues or so of Cerebus (before Sim descended entirely into naval-gazing madness) he breaks more ground in terms of the storytelling possibilities of comics than practically anybody.

American Flagg by Howard Chaykin is also far more innovative in its storytelling and in expanding the possibilities of American comics than Watchmen.

Wendy and Richard Pini were far along the way in the creation of their Elfquest Fantasy Epic, having already completed the first series.

Mike Grell's Warlord, albeit hampered by the constraints of publishing it at DC and Mike Grell not owning it, was also an ambitious fantasy epic.

As for ambitious Superhero epics, Nexus is one of several being produced at the time.

Watchmen benefitted from being very compact, playing a "real world " conceit made credible by Dave Gibbons excellent artwork. (The "real world" has always been the backdrop for Superhero comics, but Gibbons manages to make it seem "real" as in "realistically illustrated"  while also making the Superhero parts work in a way that few artists have managed. ) and from telling a seemingly serious story while pandering to mainstream prejudices about Superheroes (perverts in longjohns) while being published and promoted by a leading publisher..

It is a very well done work, but it's not quite as groundbreaking and innovative within the context of the medium as one might be lead to believe.

Where it did break new ground was in selling itself to the audience. A lot of people had never seen anything like it and concluded that there had never been anything like it.

It takes a lot of interesting things and puts them together very well and in interesting ways. It is very well executed, especially in terms of the artwork. It doesn't have to also be very original and "first" at things.  

I'd say John Ostrander's work on Suicide Squad and The Spectre was a pretty sophisticated take on two existing components of the genre.

True, Suicide Squad killed characters off, but it also developed them in a much deeper way as well.

Cerebus, Nexus and even Mike Baron's The Badger are more ground breaking than Watchmen.

I enjoyed Watchmen because it was much more about character then plot.  The plot on it's own could have been wrapped up in a few issues, it was the depth given to the characters, the backstory, the symbolism, that I enjoyed.  I'm not going to speculate or debate on if it was the first to do it, to me that is irrelevant to whether or not I enjoyed Watchmen as a book.  Each reader's knowledge of the history of comic books and whether or not Moore is an asshole also seem equally inconsequential to whether or not Watchmen is a good book.    

Cerebus, Nexus and even Mike Baron's The Badger are more ground breaking than Watchmen.

Cerebus is a perfect example for me on a personal level of liking the material more than liking the creator of that material.  Very innovative, ahead of it's time, virtually unknown by anyone outside of the comic book community.

I forget what debate we're on at any given time in this forum. 

-Anybody that likes Watchmen hates comics and themselves. 

-Alan Moore is the most acclaimed comic book creator by the mainstream media. 

-Master of Kung Fu was just as sophisticated in storytelling approach as Watchmen (really?)

-Watchmen was good but it brought about the downfall of the entire medium

Greg, I love Spectre. It's a really underrated run and deserves to be given the same respect as Miller's Daredevil and Robinson's Starman.

I might agree with you about Cerebus being more groundbreaking than Watchmen, but what do you feel about Nexus and Badger that makes those titles more groundbreaking?

I feel like I hit an impasse a few pages back on the topic of Moore's stuff, but it's cool to see some of the other innovative books of the era being mentioned. Elfquest, in particular, is one of my all-time top tens. I also followed most anything Ostrander from DC in the 80s and 90s. Suicide Squad was the best, his take on Spectre made me interested in the character for the first time, and I know Hawkworld's a sore point for some, but I loved it. I miss that incarnation.

One of the things I loved about Ostrander was that he always seemed to engender loyal artists: Mandrake, Luke McDonnell, Jan Duursema, Graham Nolan, et al. It was great to have books really maintain that visual consistancy.

About the only kind of long run he did for DC I missed was his Martian Manhunter series. I guess it wasn't his best thing ever, but some of you guys were telling me in another thread recently that it wasn't half bad. I think I might prowl eBay for it sometime soon. If nothing else, cool Mandrake art!