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Ben Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 July 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 81
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| Posted: 01 August 2010 at 5:47pm | IP Logged | 1
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He didn't say that it did for him, but his statement implied the notion that it might for some. I was just curious about that idea, that being inspired by someone/something - Ayn Rand, John Byrne, the mating habits of squirrels - could make something 'less great' for some people. I don't think I was implying anything other than knowledge of Steve Ditko's influences did not change how much I enjoy his work on Spider-Man. I can't assume that to be true for anyone else, or that anyone else was even aware of it.
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MIke Keane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 July 2010
Posts: 35
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| Posted: 02 August 2010 at 2:48am | IP Logged | 2
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James: I wonder if Frank changing gears halfway through Dark Knight Returnswas one of the factors of the increasing lateness of the final twoissues? At the time I thought it was similar to Ronin - he just failedto meet the deadline but now I wonder. There is, without doubt, a shift in issue 3, in tone, content and art style.
------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------
What increasing lateness, Miller did 4 issues in 5 months, late sure, increasing lasteness not at all
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MIke Keane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 July 2010
Posts: 35
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| Posted: 02 August 2010 at 3:07am | IP Logged | 3
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JB,
I must disagree that Moore is a one trick pony.
Has he done a fair amount of deconstruction stories? Yes.
Is that all he does? Absolutely not.
You don't like him or his work, and that is your prerogative, but constantly bashing his work makes you sound petty.
And I would like to think that one of my childhood heroes was better than that
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Thanos Kollias
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2004
Location: Greece
Posts: 5009
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| Posted: 02 August 2010 at 3:20am | IP Logged | 4
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Mike,
JB isn't "constantly bashing" Alan Moore's work. He is doing whatever any of us do, he expresses his opinion on him whenever the subject comes along. Should his opinion be different?
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Brad Krawchuk
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 5819
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| Posted: 02 August 2010 at 4:16am | IP Logged | 5
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Has he done a fair amount of deconstruction stories? Yes.
Is that all he does? Absolutely not.
---
V for Vendetta, Watchmen, Swamp Thing, The Killing Joke, Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Lost Girls, Promethea, Tom Strong, Supreme... all deconstructionist.
I mean, for not deconstructionist there's From Hell. And I suppose one or two of his DCU stories aren't deconstructionist. Maybe. Haven't read them in a while. So yeah, I guess saying he doesn't ALWAYS do deconstructionist stories is technically true. I mean, it's only at 95%, not 100%!
What was the nonsensical argument you were trying to make again?
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MIke Keane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 July 2010
Posts: 35
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| Posted: 02 August 2010 at 4:28am | IP Logged | 6
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THanos: Mike,
JB isn't "constantly bashing" Alan Moore's work. He is doingwhatever any of us do, he expresses his opinion on him whenever thesubject comes along. Should his opinion be different?
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------------
Saying he does not like Moore is one thing, mind reading and ascribing motives to Moore that can not be confirmed is what I see as him bashing Moore.
But YMMV
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MIke Keane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 July 2010
Posts: 35
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| Posted: 02 August 2010 at 4:32am | IP Logged | 7
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Brad:
Vfor Vendetta, Watchmen, Swamp Thing, The Killing Joke, WhateverHappened to the Man of Tomorrow?, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen,Lost Girls, Promethea, Tom Strong, Supreme... all deconstructionist.
Imean, for not deconstructionist there's From Hell. And I suppose one ortwo of his DCU stories aren't deconstructionist. Maybe. Haven't readthem in a while. So yeah, I guess saying he doesn't ALWAYS dodeconstructionist stories is technically true. I mean, it's only at95%, not 100%!
What was the nonsensical argument you were trying to make again?
=======================================================
Brad, V for vendetta, Whatever happened to the man of tomorrow,The Killing Joke, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, lost Girls tom strong or promethea are in NO WAY deconstructionist. since none of them seeks to say, everything you know is wrong.
Supreme, and swamp thing are both deconstructionist stories as they fundamentaly changed the nature of those comics and said "everything you thought you knew is wrong"
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Thanos Kollias
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| Posted: 02 August 2010 at 5:00am | IP Logged | 8
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Really, The Killing Joke and WHTTMOT aren't deconstructionist?! Really?!? I thought it was the epitome of that! In the first Batman laughs with the guy who crippled a friend and crippled another and in the second the harmless villains became killers and the killers something worse, Superman stopped being Superman and had a kid...
Lost Girls?!??? Do I even have to start?!?!? Look your comment on Supreme and Swamp Thing and tell me it doesn't apply a hundredfold!
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Brad Krawchuk
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Joined: 19 June 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 5819
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| Posted: 02 August 2010 at 5:19am | IP Logged | 9
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You're out of your tree, mate! You must be joking!
Lost Girls doesn't fundamentally change Peter Pan or Wizard of Oz? League of Extraordinary Gentlemen uses Allan Quatermain, Jekyll and Hyde, Captain Nemo, Moriarty, and others in a way that doesn't affect the original authors' intents?
How can you say Swamp Thing - which takes a character and changes his origin, story, abilities, and purpose - is deconstructionist, but you can't see the same thing in The Killing Joke with Batman and Joker?
How can you say Tom Strong isn't a deconstructed Doc Savage when clearly you can tell Supreme is a deconstruction of the Silver-Age Superman?
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Knut Robert Knutsen
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Joined: 22 September 2006
Posts: 7374
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| Posted: 02 August 2010 at 5:23am | IP Logged | 10
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In an interview/retrospective about Swamp Thing, Len Wein, who was Alan Moore's editor, referred to Moore's work on ST as "the same plot over and over", but very well executed. I'm paraphrasing.
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James Woodcock
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Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 02 August 2010 at 6:14am | IP Logged | 11
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Miller did 4 issues in 5 months, late sure, increasing lasteness not at all
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------------------
Not my recoection - there was a loong gap between issue 4 and 5 (Couple of months at least, which was a long time to be late back then). ------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------
V for vendetta, Whatever happened to the man of tomorrow,The Killing Joke, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, lost Girls tom strong or promethea are in NO WAY deconstructionist
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------- Wow, one of the funniest lines I've read in a long time. Lost Girls - I must have missed the sex in the original novels.
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MIke Keane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 July 2010
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| Posted: 02 August 2010 at 6:43am | IP Logged | 12
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James:
Not my recoection - there was a loong gap between issue 4 and 5 (Coupleof months at least, which was a long time to be late back then).
====================================
These are the dates that Dark Knight hit the shops
#1: March 20th 1986
#2: April 26th 1986
#3: May 15th 1986
#4: June 19th 1986
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