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Knut Robert Knutsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006
Posts: 7374
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| Posted: 30 July 2010 at 3:34am | IP Logged | 1
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To me Alan Moore is like a Stanley Kubrick of comics. It is very cleverly done and put together and it looks great, touches on important issues in a fun and sharp manner but it just moves about, it doesn't breathe. There's no heartbeat in it. Alan Moore is a master architect and he makes these perfect, wonderful, beautiful houses. Great for an overnight stay. But I'd never want to live in one of them.
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Jim Muir
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1374
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| Posted: 30 July 2010 at 4:15am | IP Logged | 2
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<<As far as WATCHMEN being the "pinnacle of the medium" I'd laugh if Iwasn't choking on my own bile. It's just OK. >>
Like it or not, it's still one of the only 'entry point' graphic novels for non-comics readers. Try as they might, Marvel and DC have still never managed to create another one. A critical and commercial success with mainstream acceptance thats been a consistant top-seller for over 20 years.
But that's 'just OK'
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Jim Muir
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1374
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| Posted: 30 July 2010 at 4:16am | IP Logged | 3
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<<You know what? I never did actually ever read Watchmen until this year(checked it out at the local library), and when I did I found it goodbut very highly overrated.>>
And you know what? I never did actually ever see Citizen Kane until this year, and when I did I found it goodbut very highly overrated.
Dunno what all the fuss was about.
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Tim Farnsworth
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 July 2010
Posts: 817
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| Posted: 30 July 2010 at 4:19am | IP Logged | 4
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I hadn't seen Sunset Boulevard until this year. It wasn't overrated a damn bit. That movie tore me up but good.
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William McCormick
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 February 2006
Posts: 3297
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| Posted: 30 July 2010 at 4:52am | IP Logged | 5
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I'm not huge fan of Watchmen. I liked it. But it is a fact that in most of the comic book world and all of the non-comic book world, Watchmen is held up as being the best example of a comic book story.
It sucks that it's true, but it is. I can think of many others more deserving, but I realize that I'm in the minority.
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Chris Geary
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 January 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1158
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| Posted: 30 July 2010 at 5:09am | IP Logged | 6
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For myself when I first experienced Watchmen (the comic - in TPB) and Citizen Kane I thought they were 'okay…'
Now after reading/watching them a few times over the years I have grown to really like both of them and the more I learn about them, the more I appreciate the amount of work that's gone into each one. I know that this isn't unique to both of them, a lot of work goes into most things that goes unnoticed by 90% of people.
The problem with both of these (and some of Kubrick's films as he has been mentioned) is that they come with really, really, really high expectations that could never be met. For myself I was expecting some sort of life changing experience that would unlock the secrets of great comicbook/film making and enable me to do the same. It wasn't until I got through them a couple of times that I realised that the secrets they contained are pretty simple. Work hard.
I was fourteen/fifteen when I first read Watchmen and about nineteen when I first saw Citizen Kane. I'm glad I didn't decide to stay with the opinions I had of those back then as I would have missed out on some good stuff. It is sometimes difficult to experience something on its own terms without us bringing something to it that affects how we perceive it, and it takes a couple of run throughs to get rid of that baggage and experience it unaffected.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133551
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| Posted: 30 July 2010 at 6:20am | IP Logged | 7
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ou might choke all you like, but Watchmen, the movie, was *promoted* as being based on "The Most Celebrated Graphic Novel of All Time"•• Which, of course, it wasn't. WATCHMEN was a comicbook series later collected into trade paperbacks and other such forms. At no point in its history was it ever a "graphic novel".
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Michael Edwards
Byrne Robotics Member
Wish Granted
Joined: 21 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 295
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| Posted: 30 July 2010 at 6:21am | IP Logged | 8
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I never found Watchmen brilliant, or innovative. To me it was just an overly wordy comic that was nothing out of the ordinary.
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Laren Farmer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 975
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| Posted: 30 July 2010 at 7:38am | IP Logged | 9
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After getting over being offended by Citizen Kane and Watchmen being mentioned in the same sentence...I was able to find it a bit amusing. People who find Citizen Kane overrated do so because they lack knowledge of film making and its history. People who find Watchmen to be brilliant (aside from the artwork) lack knowledge of comic books and their history.
Edited by Laren Farmer on 30 July 2010 at 7:38am
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Bobby Beem
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2009
Posts: 161
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| Posted: 30 July 2010 at 8:10am | IP Logged | 10
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Which, of course, it wasn't. WATCHMEN was a comicbook series later collected into trade paperbacks and other such forms. At no point in its history was it ever a "graphic novel". ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I guess Dickens didn't write many novels, then?
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Jim Muir
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1374
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| Posted: 30 July 2010 at 8:22am | IP Logged | 11
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<<People who find Citizen Kane overrated do so because they lack knowledge of film making and its history. People who find Watchmen to be brilliant (aside from the artwork) lack knowledge of comic books and their history.>>
My point was: Seen now, Citizen Kane is a solid, if unspectacular movie. However, on its release it was a groundbreaking and innovative piece of cinema. The breakthroughs that make Kane such a clever piece of work are now commonplace and unremarkable.
I'm sure you can see the connection.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36078
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| Posted: 30 July 2010 at 8:50am | IP Logged | 12
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Jim Muir wrote:
Like it or not, it's still one of the only 'entry point' graphic novels for non-comics readers. Try as they might, Marvel and DC have still never managed to create another one. A critical and commercial success with mainstream acceptance thats been a consistant top-seller for over 20 years.
But that's 'just OK' |
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Oh come on. WATCHMEN isn't an "entry point" for anyone. No one picking up WATCHMEN as their first foray into superhero comics, of which it is, comes away wanting to read Spider-Man or Batman. Most people I know, anecdotal to be sure, whose first experience with comics was reading it, started and ended with WATCHMEN. It didn't encourage them to seek out more comics and become regular readers/purchasers of the genre. That's like saying BONE was an "entry point". It wasn't. It was a comic that appealed to a certain reader, specific to that story and those characters, and not a gateway to other comics in general.
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