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Ted Pugliese
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Posted: 30 July 2010 at 5:46am | IP Logged | 1  

 if so many on your side didn't fight so hard to own any type and carry anywhere, any gun they want.

But this isn't my side.  I'm on your side.

What I'm saying is it seems a little naive to think the gun control laws most of us here seem to favor are the answer to our problems. 

Regardless of what Koroush thinks, one click of that link above reveals that his country is really no different than our own.  A bunch of enthuists who fancy themselves 'professional shooters' with a 'genuine need' can buy and sell, transport and shoot, rifles, handguns, etc. all they want.

Like Brad said, they were designed to kill.

It is the hippocracy, the judging, and the 'I can have them because I'm responsible but you can't' attitude that makes no sense to me, but I guess I just don't have the mental capacity to understand why those guys in the Australian link above should have their guns but I shouldn't.

Is it because I'm American?  I get a little of that vibe from Koroush (got a little from Al too), and I don't undertsand that.  Is it because we are like Drago's wife in Rocky IV? Because you are so good and we are so very bad?

Heck with that.

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Brad Krawchuk
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Posted: 30 July 2010 at 6:03am | IP Logged | 2  

It is the hippocracy, the judging, and the 'I can have them because I'm responsible but you can't' attitude that makes no sense to me, but I guess I just don't have the mental capacity to understand why those guys in the Australian link above should have their guns but I shouldn't.
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Well, far be it from me to pick a nit, but "home defense" and "self defense" types of guns are meant for killing people, and hunting rifles and shotguns are meant for killing deer and ducks. 

See, in order for "defense" to be an argument for needing a gun, you have to have that gun handy, loaded, and someone easily accessible at a moments notice. On your person, in your purse, in your nightstand, under the pillow, beside the bed, whatever. 

Al can store his guns as he laid out earlier in like 3 different places. Guns someplace, ammo someplace else, firing pins someplace else. Only when he's going hunting does he have to make the trip to put all those components together, and even then they're all under lock and key so no one can get to any one of the components easily. 

A gun you need at a moments notice? Either you've gotta be really good with keys after being awoken by a strange sound in the middle of the night, and you have to really know your weapon like a freaking Marine to assemble it in the dark very quickly under pressure, or you have to keep it loaded and accessible. 

Loaded and accessible is irresponsible. No matter what. I'm open to an argument that explains to me how that's safer than Al's storage, but I fear it's going to be a long time coming. 

Al owns rifles to hunt bush critters. People who buy them for defense buy them to KILL PEOPLE. Can Al's be used to kill people? Sure. So can the Balrog bust on my computer desk. So can the CD's beside my computer. So could the Bug's Life Picture Frame with my little cousin's photo in it. 

Are any of those things made for murdering people?

You call that hypocrisy, Ted, but I don't think you know what that word means. Hypocrisy would be saying I'm against guns that kill people and pro mining your backyard against intruders. Hypocrisy would be saying I'm against guns for home protection, but if you want to set up claymores on your porch every night, go ahead. 

People should be responsible with their tools, cars, hunting rifles etc. If they aren't, or if someone is purposefully using them incorrectly, then yes, death can occur. But that's DESPITE safety features, that's DESPITE warning labels, instruction manual directions, and it's DESPITE the intended purpose of those objects to kill with them. 

Someone takes an Ak-47 into McDonald's and kills 20 people? It's a tragedy, it's horrible, it's sickening, it's terrifying, it's heartbreaking, but whatever else you can say about that situation... at least the guy was using the gun PROPERLY. 
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Jim Muir
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Posted: 30 July 2010 at 6:04am | IP Logged | 3  

<<not one of you has explained why you don't think thepart about a well-regulated militia isn't important, then I have towonder what your thinking.>>

Can you explain the importance of a well regulated militia? Enabling the people of the United Stated to set up a militia to defend against what exactly?

Because I can think of very few scenarios where the citizens would come out winning.
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Ted Pugliese
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Posted: 30 July 2010 at 7:34am | IP Logged | 4  

Brad, I do not think you are being a hypocrit here, at all.
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Ted Pugliese
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Posted: 30 July 2010 at 7:49am | IP Logged | 5  

 Someone takes an Ak-47 into McDonald's and kills 20 people? It's a tragedy, it's horrible, it's sickening, it's terrifying, it's heartbreaking, but whatever else you can say about that situation... at least the guy was using the gun PROPERLY. 
 
Yes he was, but the laws against doing that, and the death penalty he may face as a consequesnce (depending on the state), did nothing to prevent it.  The real problem is the manufacture, distribution, and sale of those weapons.
 
I mean, I can't buy one here, and I do not think I should be allowed to do so, but I'm sure somebody in NJ has one, specifically to kill someone.  Strict laws only prevent me from having one (not that I want one).
 
The problem is bigger that this.  The problem is why does our society make guns, or drugs, alcohol, and cigarettes?  We spend more time and energy and money trying to control them, but keep on making them.
 
It's not the little guy who is to blame for wanting one, it's the world that's rotten.
 
And ultimately, in my opinion, if I can own a shotgun or a rifle (the most dangerous of the bunch), then what's the big deal about owning a handgun?
 
Can't have a rifle in NJ because the state is too flat.  There is nothign to stop those high powered bulletts from traveling far enough to hurt someone.  But every year, you hear about some hunter with a shot gun or muzzle loader hurting himself or somebody else.
 
Here's a good question.  Do more people die from accidental gun deaths in the home or while out hunting?
 
It's all or nothing, Brad.  Either they are bad and shouldn't exist or it doesn't really matter which kind you have, and no law is going to make you be responsible with it.  Only common sense can do that.  Al knows what he is doing.  I doubt he simply does it because it's the law.
 
But, criminal record aside, who is to judge who has enough common sense to have a gun.  Either WE can have them, or AL can't either.
 
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Ted Pugliese
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Posted: 30 July 2010 at 8:05am | IP Logged | 6  

I'm not pro-militia either.  What do a bunch of gun nuts think they are going to do against an actual Army?  Especially our own?

Sad, but we are so beyond guns.  We might as well be carrying bows and arrows.

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Ted Pugliese
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Posted: 30 July 2010 at 8:08am | IP Logged | 7  

Private militia, that is.  The National Guard is a fine example of a well regulated militia.

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Jeremiah Avery
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Posted: 30 July 2010 at 8:17am | IP Logged | 8  

Why you want to take Al's guns away? ;-)

Some of these militia members think they are soldiers in some upcoming revolution.  However, soldiers are willing to die for the rights of others, whereas these people are willing to harm others for theirs.

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William McCormick
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Posted: 30 July 2010 at 8:43am | IP Logged | 9  

Can you explain the importance of a well regulated militia? Enabling the people of the United Stated to set up a militia to defend against what exactly?

Because I can think of very few scenarios where the citizens would come out winning.

*****************

At the time the second amendment was written, it was so that we never had to worry about the British trying to take us over again. We all get that.

Now? I'm not so sure. That part seems to have little or no meaning. The only part of the amendment that matters is the part after the comma.

I just don't understand why groups like the NRA think that first part doesn't matter.

Brad, I hope you know I wasn't trying to read your mind. I just was trying to clarify what I thought you meant. I mean, if a dumbass like me gets it, why is it so hard for other people?
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Brad Krawchuk
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Posted: 30 July 2010 at 9:00am | IP Logged | 10  

Brad, I hope you know I wasn't trying to read your mind. I just was trying to clarify what I thought you meant. I mean, if a dumbass like me gets it, why is it so hard for other people?

---

Now you're just bragging! "I read Brad's mind, and I wasn't even trying!"

As for the militia part, I thought that was the army? I mean, they have the guns necessary to defend the nation, and the safeguard against tyranny is the fact that a civilian elected by the citizens controls the military. 

Well regulated militia being necessary for a free state. As in, we don't have to worry about having to obey the king if he's an asshole like George III. We don't have to worry about our army obeying a mad king and attacking us either. Our army is led by a guy we put in place through elections. He's the Commander in Chief. And his powers are checked and balanced by the powers of the Judicial Branch and the Legislative Branch - the latter of which we also elect. 

Seems like a fair reading to me. I don't read the Second Amendment and see "hey, EVERYONE GETS A GUN! WOO HOO!" 
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Michael Abbey
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Posted: 30 July 2010 at 9:03am | IP Logged | 11  

When you interpret an entire amendment of the Constitution and leave out the entire first part of it, and still not one of you has explained why you don't think the part about a well-regulated militia isn't important, then I have to wonder what your thinking.

+++

I have. It's because I can find no evidence that the Founders constructed the Second Amendment to protect gun ownership in service to a well-regulated militia. I can, however, find much evidence to the contrary. I have asked before for anyone to present evidence that any Founders supported the more restrictive reading of the Second Amendment, and so far no one has.



Edited by Michael Abbey on 30 July 2010 at 9:05am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 30 July 2010 at 9:09am | IP Logged | 12  

I can find no evidence that the Founders constructed the Second Amendment to protect gun ownership in service to a well-regulated militia.

••

Other than in the wording of the amendment itself, you mean?

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