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Ted Pugliese
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 7985
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| Posted: 29 July 2010 at 8:48am | IP Logged | 1
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I believe someone from the forum, can't remember who, used his gun to shoot an intruder, after warning him, IIRC.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36179
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| Posted: 29 July 2010 at 10:41am | IP Logged | 2
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This story from today's LA Times is incredibly sad: Murder-suicide or suicide pact suspected in deaths of Chino Hills brothers, 10 and 12 Still being investigated, but their father's gun was used. Was "protecting the home" worth this kind of tragedy? Sorry, not for me.
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Randy Lahey
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 January 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 673
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| Posted: 29 July 2010 at 5:13pm | IP Logged | 3
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Matt, back on July 22, in Staten Island a mother killed three of her children by slashing their throats with a straight razor. Then she set fire to her house which killed herself and one other child. People do horrific things with and without guns. Even if magically we could get ride of all guns, people are still going to do horrible things to each other. Guns do make it simpler for people to do these crimes but if someone really wants to do it, they will find a way.
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Brad Krawchuk
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 5814
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| Posted: 29 July 2010 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | 4
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slashing their throats with a straight razor
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Ah yes, the straight razor! First line of any home defense system. Wait, straight razors are for shaving? Well then, using them not as intended could be dangerous!
Guns? For killing people.
Stop making the same stupid argument that guns should be allowed just because other things can kill people. Pretty much anything CAN kill a person if it's used to do so, from a toy car to a pencil to a dumbbell to a lamp. Not one of those things is designed for killing people though, nor are they created to make taking lives easier. Guns? For KILLING PEOPLE.
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Randy Lahey
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 January 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 673
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| Posted: 29 July 2010 at 7:11pm | IP Logged | 5
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Read my post Brad. I never made the argument that guns should be allowed because other things can kill people. Matt gave an example of a murder/suicide using a gun, I gave an example of a murder/suicide with a straight razor and I even said guns made it simpler to do these horrible things, however eliminating guns (something which is impossible) won't stop horrible things from happening.
Many pages back I recommended to Al that he destroy his guns because owning guns introduces the chance of bad things happening. I support gun control, not a full ban, the current gun control in Canada is acceptable to me. I'd never have a gun in my house, I have a small child (though I wouldn't own a gun even if I didn't have a child). My father is a hunter, I grew up in a house with many guns, my dad followed all rules and there was never an issue with the guns but I have no need of any, I don't hunt and I don't believe I need any for self defense, therefore I won't be owning any.
Edited by Randy Lahey on 29 July 2010 at 7:13pm
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Ted Pugliese
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 7985
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| Posted: 29 July 2010 at 7:49pm | IP Logged | 6
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I am so confused. Al gets mad at people for agreeing with him, like me.
For example, I support Al's right to own his guns, I support his position for gun laws that 'require' him to be responsible, and I support his responsible behavior.
Furthermore, no matter how safe he is or I would be, I do not feel comfortable having guns in my house with my children, but I support his right to own his.
Most people here seem to be of this belief. If some of you think your right to keep and bear arms should come with no control, laws, or regulations, then I disagree, but I am not getting that vibe from anyone here, so I do not know what gets Al so fired up.
As for my take on Brad's position, I think he would rather guns have NEVER been invented, because I'm pretty sure he doesn't truly believe that an all out ban on guns would make them disappear.
People have been killing people for as long as there have been people. It sucks, but it is true. We invented guns to better kill people. If there were no guns EVER, people would still be killing people and people would still be dying accidental deaths.
Brad's point seems like more of a fantasy or wishful thinking. The military, police, criminals, and private citizens concerned about their safety do keep and bear arms to kill. That IS the point. You do not have to make it, Brad.
Change the law, ban guns (or is that only hand guns, because I would feel much better protecting my family with a shot gun anyway. Cocking it alone should scare an intruder away), Soldiers, cops, and criminals are still going to purposely and accidentally kill each other and themselves. A FEW will also kill people who MAY have defended themselves if they had a gun. Others will find other ways to kill themselves, their families, and others.
So ultimately, I don't get his point that guns should not exist because they were designed to kill. Duh!
Should his point be that a ban on guns is worth it because it would save some lives, and even one life saved would make the ban worth it? If so, then that I get, but that logic suggests bans and controls on all things that cause accidental deaths, including cars and driving, the biggest killer of all.
So with all due respect, get to the point, Brad. Describe your proposal, what exactly would you ban, and how do you deal with all the guns already owned? For military, police, criminals, and law abiding citizens?
That I would love to hear.
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Ted Pugliese
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 7985
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| Posted: 29 July 2010 at 7:52pm | IP Logged | 7
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I hope that doesn't sound disrespectful. I do not mean to be rude.
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10934
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| Posted: 29 July 2010 at 9:16pm | IP Logged | 8
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I wonder if those who are making the "b-b-but pillows kill people
too!" Arguement are willfully ignoring the actual point, or just don't
have the mental capacity to understand the arguement?Either way, it bodes ill on the suitability to own firearms.
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10934
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| Posted: 29 July 2010 at 9:18pm | IP Logged | 9
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Oh, by the way, I was being sarcastic. Considering how clear the
point is and how many times it's been clarified, the people in
question are clearly of diminished capacity.
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Koroush Ghazi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1687
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| Posted: 29 July 2010 at 9:51pm | IP Logged | 10
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Especially when claiming they can't picture how a gun ban would work, when it has been noted several times that since 1996 there has been a gun ban in Australia that has worked to reduce gun crime and overall homicide rates - and yes, statistics in easy-to-read graphical form proving this have also been provided in this thread.
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William McCormick
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 February 2006
Posts: 3297
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| Posted: 29 July 2010 at 9:59pm | IP Logged | 11
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So ultimately, I don't get his point that guns should not exist because they were designed to kill. Duh!
********************
I think him making that point is in direct response to people who keep making that argument that you can kill a person with anything.
All of us get that. But, guns were invented for one purpose and one purpose only, to kill more efficiently. No one can deny this. When you kill something or someone with a gun, you are using that gun exactly as it was meant to be used.
If you kill someone with a car, towel, stick, etc., etc., etc., you are not using those object for their intended purpose. Whereas with a gun, you were.
As far as guns go, I truly believe that there is no way to ban guns. It's far too late for that. But making the argument that just because you can kill someone with a car, so we should ban cars, is just ridiculous. Cars were not designed for the sole purpose of killing easier.
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Ted Pugliese
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 7985
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| Posted: 29 July 2010 at 10:16pm | IP Logged | 12
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there has been a gun ban in Australia that has worked to reduce gun crime and overall homicide rates That is good news, great actually, but I guess more than a few Americans have a problem with losing their constitutional rights and their guns while the criminals still committing gun crime and homicide keep theirs. And what about the responsible owners like Al Cook, do they get too keep theirs?
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Topic Closed)
