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Scott Daggett Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 February 2008 Posts: 837
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Posted: 22 July 2010 at 8:13am | IP Logged | 1
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Brad, I'm a really good shot. I've been shooting for 29 years. Plus, I've also been trained in the military during my time in the Army. If I miss hitting a target that's 5 to 10 feet in front of me then I better hang up my guns.
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Wayde Murray Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 October 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 3115
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Posted: 22 July 2010 at 9:20am | IP Logged | 2
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Scott, it's nice that you have confidence in your abilities, since (under Brad's hypothetical scenario) you'd be betting your proficiency against the life of your neighbor's loved one. You're betting that you won't be drunk or stoned or sick or otherwise incapacitated on the night that a criminal enters your home, and that you'll still be a really good shot under any and all circumstances beyond your control. You're betting that the criminal (not a target) will not move unexpectedly the moment you squeeze the trigger, that your loved ones or family pets who may be in the room won't jostle you or startle you at just the wrong moment... And you're betting that your loved ones won't ever be the "target" when you pick up your gun in a moment of blind rage and show them just how good a shot you really are. A member of my wife's family was a really good shot, and he killed his wife in a drunken rage with a single bullet. No matter how mad or drunk he might have been, it's unlikely that she'd have died that day if no guns had been in that house. So, I guess I'm saying that I agree with the last 6 words in your post.
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Al Cook Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004 Posts: 12736
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Posted: 22 July 2010 at 9:23am | IP Logged | 3
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Those'd be the six I agree with.
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12814
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Posted: 22 July 2010 at 9:27am | IP Logged | 4
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If I miss hitting a target that's 5 to 10 feet in front of me then I better hang up my guns.
***
What about, instead of a miss, a misfire that accidentally hurts an innocent?
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Brad Krawchuk Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 5814
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Posted: 22 July 2010 at 9:38am | IP Logged | 5
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Scott - well, I guess it's okay then if you were trained in the military. No soldier has ever missed a target as far as I know! They're like cops - never a stray round! You squeeze off one, maybe two rounds, at centre mass, and your target goes down with one or two rounds in him.
I think that since you're so good, you should get rid of this line -
If I miss hitting a target that's 5 to 10 feet in front of me...
- because the "if" betrays your confidence and abilities. I mean, after all, if that "if" is there, the possibility exists that you could maybe miss. And if that were the case, well... I'm glad your family gets to live while a member of mine gets to die just for being your neighbour.
Thanks, buddy! Glad my kid is worth less than yours! Way to protect the neighbourhood... oh, that's not what you're trying to protect. You're just trying to protect what's yours at the expense of the safety and well being of absolutely everyone else in what, a 500 yard radius?
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Mike O'Brien Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10934
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Posted: 22 July 2010 at 9:53am | IP Logged | 6
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I nominate Victor's post for some sort of award. Best laugh I've had in 2010...
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Scott Daggett Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 February 2008 Posts: 837
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Posted: 22 July 2010 at 11:29am | IP Logged | 7
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You guys make me laugh, you really do! There's just no reasoning with you guys. Tell you what, why don't we all go bury our heads in the sand (some of you already have your heads up your asses) and let the criminals do whatever the hell they want. Why don't we just turn a blind eye to crime altogether. We should just let whatever happens when a criminal, intent on harming you or your family, happen and let the powers that be decide the fate of these individuals after the fact that your wives may have been raped, your children molested or your loved ones murdered! Hey, if someone breaks into my house, I might as well give him my bank account numbers, offer him my wife, let him take whatever he wants, offer him my life, let him take my children (if I had any) and just give him free reign to do whatever he want and do nothing to stop him. That's the message that I get from you guys, that I don't have a right to protect me and my family if the situation were ever to arise. If I were your spouse, I'd be pretty worried since you fellas are just gonna lay down and let a perp do what they want. Suppose I were a police officer, do I have the right to protect/defend my family in my home? Before you answer that, doesn't the same "stray bullet" scenario apply in this case as well? I don't get angry often, especially online but I'm starting to get a little pissed off because some of you would rather see someone like me, who is able and fully capable to defend themselves, become a possible victim of a violent crime just because a stray bullet might cause collateral damage. If that's the case, we might as well have unarmed police officers because the probablity that a cop might miss a target due to an illness, hangover, sleepiness or lack of skill and cause collateral damage is just as equal to the probablility that I could do the same because a police officer canvases a larger area on his beat. After all, we are all only human.
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Al Cook Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004 Posts: 12736
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Posted: 22 July 2010 at 11:34am | IP Logged | 8
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"I don't get angry often, especially online but I'm starting to get a little pissed off because some of you would rather see someone like me, who is able and fully capable to defend themselves, become a possible victim of a violent crime just because a stray bullet might cause collateral damage."
Since that collateral damage could well be the life of an innocent person, I think I'd like to see your anger, and raise you a fuck off.
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Al Cook Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004 Posts: 12736
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Posted: 22 July 2010 at 11:35am | IP Logged | 9
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"Hey, if someone breaks into my house, I might as well give him my bank account numbers, offer him my wife, let him take whatever he wants, offer him my life, let him take my children (if I had any) and just give him free reign to do whatever he want and do nothing to stop him. That's the message that I get from you guys, that I don't have a right to protect me and my family if the situation were ever to arise."
Don't be so fucking retarded. Not one of us has suggested anything of the like.
Yeah, I'm angry now too. You make me want to puke.
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Mike O'Brien Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10934
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Posted: 22 July 2010 at 11:45am | IP Logged | 10
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If you get this angry from a debate on the internet should you really have a gun?
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Brad Krawchuk Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 5814
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Posted: 22 July 2010 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 11
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Thank you, Scott.
You've successfully admitted that everyone around you is collateral damage, and that their innocent lives don't matter as much as yours.
That's all I wanted. As long as you recognize that's the consequence of you owning a gun, you'll know exactly why I believe someone as frightened, panic prone, and amoral as you should NEVER be able to own a gun.
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Scott Daggett Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 February 2008 Posts: 837
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Posted: 22 July 2010 at 11:53am | IP Logged | 12
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No Brad, that's your interpretation. Nowhere in any of my posts have I said such a thing. It would be devastating to cause any innocent to lose their life through collateral damage but I'm not gonna just stand there and be a victim of violent crime when I have the means to defend myself, if the situation were ever to arise. Maybe you don't mind being a victim but I do. You fellas are good at putting a spin on things. Don't paint me as an amoral person, none of you know me at all. All you know is that I am pro-gun. Because of that, you guys spin these tales, insult me and try to make me and all of the other pro-gunners here look bad. I believe that I have tried to maintain some order of respect toward other forum members with my posts and comments but as usual with Al (and I do like you BTW), he starts to throw the f'bombs thereby showing how much of a classy fella he really is. It is one thing to be paranoid, it's another thing altogether to be prepared. I like to think that I am prepared just in case something does happen. All of these debates are hypothetical. I understand Brad's passion to protect innocents from being hurt but how about your loved ones? What would you do if you were faced with a situation where, for whatever reason, a stranger invades your home armed with a gun and is intent on killing you or your spouse? You're stuck upstairs with no means of exiting your home. He's coming upstairs, blocking the only way out. What would you do? I know you would dial 911 but what would you do while you are waiting for the police to arrive? Please, this is a serious question so please don't answer with sarcasm. I really want to hear some thoughtful, heartfelt and well thought out answers. What would you do? It could happen to you! Nuff Said! Have a nice day! Edited to add more fuel to this fire
Edited by Scott Daggett on 22 July 2010 at 12:21pm
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