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Topic: OT: Texas mayor shoots daughter, then herself... (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Al Cook
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Joined: 21 December 2004
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Posted: 19 July 2010 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | 1  

Kurtis, you touch on a point a friend of mine inadvertently raised when I was telling him about this discussion and people's reactions to my vehemence.  He just said that those who dislike it probably wished I was directing all my passion into some other area where it would do some good, like cancer research.

The problem is there are no assholes out there arguing for people's rights to keep dying of cancer!
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Kurtis J. Evans
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Posted: 19 July 2010 at 12:13pm | IP Logged | 2  

Well... any advocate of the tobacco company... (or of our rights to keep on smokin')
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Al Cook
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Posted: 19 July 2010 at 12:16pm | IP Logged | 3  

Well, this is true.

And trust me, I do my share of trying to argue sense into that kind of idiot too.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 19 July 2010 at 12:17pm | IP Logged | 4  

The problem is there are no assholes out there arguing for people's rights to keep dying of cancer!

••

This argument unfortunately fails on the point that gun nuts are not really arguing (at least not in so many words) for our right to kill people. Just as cigarette companies deny this nearly inevitable consequence of smoking, gun nuts deny this nearly inevitable consequence of, you know, lots and lots of GUNS.

Gun nuts will, in fact, argue (as they do here) that guns SAVE lives.

Just like sex helps preserve virginity.

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Stephen Robinson
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Posted: 19 July 2010 at 12:35pm | IP Logged | 5  

Curiously, while many of us use the Wild West analogy to describe thegun-owner mentality, I was watching Wyatt Earp last week and severaltowns had gun laws where you had to turn your gun in to the sheriff andget it back when you left city limits again.

Even in the Wild West, people surrendered their guns


************

SER: Yes, it further underscores the notion that traditionally, you would only have a need to arm yourself in an uncivilized situation -- while in the "wild" where you might be set upon by animals or -- historical perspective, please -- Indians.

But there was no logic for someone to be armed when within the protection of a town.

************
To be serious for just a moment JB. My bedroom is on the second floorof my Cape Cod style home. My front door opens up with the staircasejust to the left of the front door. If a perp were to come up thosestairs, I have no way to safely exit my home. I suppose I could jumpout a second story window down to the ground below but then, that wouldnot be a safe exit.

I can effectively "still get to my gun" because my gun cabinet is in my bedroom.

*************

SER: I am genuinely confused here. It seems that you have identified a fault in the design of your home but the solution you've come up with will result in someone's death*. Is there no means to have an effective secuirty system that alerts you to someone's unlawful entry and a means of easy escape?

What you describe is also the set-up for stories I've read about inadvertant killings of family members (e.g. the daughter who arrives home from college earlier than expected and so on).

*Yes, this person is a criminal, but I know few police officers who would not have preferred another means of preventing a crime rather than having to use lethal force.





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Mark McKay
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Posted: 19 July 2010 at 1:04pm | IP Logged | 6  

This whole gun in the bedroom cabinet got me thinking about my mom. Not sure if she still does, but for many years after my dad died she slept with a gun under her pillow.
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Kurtis J. Evans
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Posted: 19 July 2010 at 1:09pm | IP Logged | 7  

I reckon that's slightly less dangerous if there are no youngin's in the house, but if you happened to have children who spent any amount of time with her, were you nervous?
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Mark McKay
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Posted: 19 July 2010 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 8  

Oh yeah, she only did that when she was home alone - not if we were in the house.

Then she'd just hide it under the crib.


Just kidding.

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Kurtis J. Evans
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Posted: 19 July 2010 at 1:34pm | IP Logged | 9  

Hah!
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Wayde Murray
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Posted: 19 July 2010 at 2:38pm | IP Logged | 10  

The underlying belief that "might makes right" seems so prevalent in so many citizens of the United States that I'm not sure how many even recognize it in themselves or their culture.  Old movies show us that the good guy, who is pure of heart, will always triumph over the villain, who is so cowardly that he won't engage in a fair fight (because he'll always lose).  The amount of force employed by the good guy is always justified (up to and including lethal force) because the bad guy forced his hand.  He'd have prefered just minding his own business peacefully, but the bad guy went and made a move, and a response was required.

This translates into private citizens who see themselves as "the good guys", hardworking, peaceful, law-abiding individuals, who will only react when provoked.  They seem to truly believe this.  Other people who have lost children to gun-related accidents weren't as "good" as they are, not as careful, not as competent.  Safeguards might have been overlooked or ignored in that other house, but by God that could never happen here.  I don't need to rely on others (or an alarm, or whatever) because I'm a Good Guy!  I know what I'm doing, and I'll never relax my guard, not even for a moment.  Accidents won't happen to me, because I'm the hero of the movie I'm living in.  And therefore I'll be okay.

And more people die.

 

 



Edited by Wayde Murray on 20 July 2010 at 6:18am
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William McCormick
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Posted: 19 July 2010 at 3:24pm | IP Logged | 11  

I lived in Augusta, Georgia for about 4 years while stationed at Ft. Gordon. Now Augusta is a fairly good sized city and in all that time I never had a worry that I was going to be robbed or attacked.

In fact, the only time I ever had an incident is with some idiot redneck who cut me off in traffic and brandished his pistol at me because I had the audacity to blow my horn at him.

So no criminals here, just a douchebag trying to show me how tough he was.
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Brad Krawchuk
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Posted: 19 July 2010 at 5:46pm | IP Logged | 12  

So no criminals here, just a douchebag trying to show me how tough he was.

---

Which of course, given the scenario you laid out, is about negative 8 Billion Tough. Oh bitter gun brandishing irony. 
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