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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12735
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| Posted: 17 July 2010 at 10:06am | IP Logged | 1
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(Which, by the way, is exactly the problem.)
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Andy Williams
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 99
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| Posted: 18 July 2010 at 5:50pm | IP Logged | 2
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So, a human life is worth less when the person who lost it did so during the commission of a crime.
Carnac was right.
Ah, moral relativism. Makes things like defending guns sooo much easier to justify.
"Some people are just plain worth less than others, so let's not bother changing a system that might make them safer too." **** Never said that any one life was worth less than another...a life is what you make of it and encompasses the decisions you make. Let's leave the innocents out of it for a minute. Once Moron A has knowingly made the decision to commit an illegal activity that puts his/her life in jeopardy they have, in my opinion, made the decision that the end result of their action (drugs, money, power) is worth more than their own life. At that point, bringing the innocents back in, all I value and all I care about is the innocent. If Moron A dies, he's/she's made the choice knowingly and, as callous as I may seem, I don't really care. If the innocent dies it breaks my heart. Is there more tragedy in the loss of the innocent over Moron A? Yes...Moron A obviously values some THING over their own life and does not care who is hurt in obtaining the THING...sorry but to me that's not a tragic loss. You want to operate in a vacuum? Yes, I value every life, every soul at it's core, it's most basic elements. However, once the person has determined the direction of that life and has determined that theirs is worth more than any others at any cost...I value that person, that life, less. And I'd rather see those who do not care about the consequences of their actions or the implications of their actions for others removed once their actions have caused harm to another. By incarceration preferably or by elimination if the individual chooses to chance that path. ******* The foaming of the mouth on BOTH sides of this arguement is a saddisplay of civilized discourse. Of course I'm on the ignore list, soI'm relegated to a secondary class of society already. If only I couldreach the moral high ground. Nite all... Thanks for the input. How would you prefer we discuss this? I think its been fairly civil. No wonder you're being ignored. ***
And we're back to slavery!
Wow. How that statement is the end result of my comments is beyond me. That's a pretty big jump...Evel Knievel'd be proud of that kind of jump. |
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12735
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| Posted: 18 July 2010 at 6:45pm | IP Logged | 3
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Andy Williams 19:50 p.m. EDT 07/18 wrote:
Never said that any one life was worth less than another... |
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Andy Williams 15:11 p.m. EDT 07/16 wrote:
| No. I don't value their lives as much as I do others... |
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Jim Muir
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1384
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| Posted: 19 July 2010 at 1:15am | IP Logged | 4
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<<Some people are just plain worth less than others, so let's not bother changing a system that might make them safer too>>
Yes. Yes they are. Entirely because of their own choices.
Unlike slaves.
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Knut Robert Knutsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006
Posts: 7374
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| Posted: 19 July 2010 at 1:45am | IP Logged | 5
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All are equal. But some are more equal than others. Now, see, that's the way to phrase a point of principle ;-)
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Scott Daggett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 February 2008
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 19 July 2010 at 6:54am | IP Logged | 6
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How about Adolph Hitler. Is his life worth the same as the Jews he ordered to the death camps? How about Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, Ed Gein, Josef Mengele, the Zodiac Killer, and a few more pillars of society? Are their lives worth just as much as yours and your families? There are some people who just don't deserve to live among those of us who choose to live our lives in a manner that is morally acceptable to the society at large.
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12735
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| Posted: 19 July 2010 at 6:56am | IP Logged | 7
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"There are some people who just don't deserve to live"
And who decides that? Does a gun give you the right to unilaterally decide that all on your own in a given situation? Far far far too many people feel it does.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134217
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| Posted: 19 July 2010 at 6:58am | IP Logged | 8
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How that statement is the end result of my comments is beyond me.•• Try reading all the intervening comments. Perhaps the scales will fall from your eyes.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134217
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| Posted: 19 July 2010 at 7:02am | IP Logged | 9
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There are some people who just don't deserve to live++ And who decides that? Does a gun give you the right to unilaterally decide that all on your own in a given situation? Far far far too many people feel it does. •• And that's the key. A gun gives an INDIVIDUAL the ability to choose whether or not another individual has the right to go on living. I happen to be in favor of capital punishment. I believe that the State, acting on behalf of its citizens, does, indeed, have the right to decide when an individual has forfeited his/her own right to keep on living. I also believe that soldiers and police officers, acting as individuals representing the State, and therefore the citizens, have the right to make the same decision. I do not believe ANY private citizen, acting unilaterally, has the right to make that choice. (Self defense? Sure. But there's another problem. Putting a gun in someone's hands makes them often all too eager to invoke deadly force in the name of "self defense".)
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Scott Daggett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 February 2008
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 19 July 2010 at 7:31am | IP Logged | 10
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I also agree that a private citizen does not have the right to decide who lives or dies but if someone is attempting to do me or my wife harm and I see no other means of escape, sadly, it will end badly for the perp.
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12735
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| Posted: 19 July 2010 at 7:32am | IP Logged | 11
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Badly as in shot-and-wounded, or badly as in dead?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134217
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| Posted: 19 July 2010 at 7:42am | IP Logged | 12
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I also agree that a private citizen does not have the right to decide who lives or dies but if someone is attempting to do me or my wife harm and I see no other means of escape, sadly, it will end badly for the perp.•• We hear this a lot, don't we? But, again, as I stated in my previous post, if a gun is in the equation, the decision as to when all other resources have been exhausted tends to come a lot quicker. In your equation you say it will "end badly", which suggests you're not even considering using the gun merely to hold the perp at bay while you call the cops. If you're this scared of home invasion, keep a baseball bat or a nice, big crowbar by the bed.
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Topic Closed)
