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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14880
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| Posted: 16 July 2010 at 12:36pm | IP Logged | 1
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Of the 2,470 homicides 1,411 or 57.13% were firearm relatedOf the 1,508 suicides 1,020 or 67.64% were firearm related ---- I thought these stats were worth highlighting.
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12735
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| Posted: 16 July 2010 at 12:38pm | IP Logged | 2
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Indeed.
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Andy Williams
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 99
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| Posted: 16 July 2010 at 12:44pm | IP Logged | 3
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Wow! 64 posts in 6 years and that's what you end it with?
Your statistics may be completely accurate, but even 1 accidental death or homicide from a gun is too much.
*******
Yes, 64 posts and that's what I end with. Al's proposition of shooting all gun-toters didn't strike me as funny or appropriate and I felt it was a moronic statement. I wasn't aware that I was required to reach a certain number of posts before calling someone a moron. How many before I can drop the f-bomb?
Yes. One death is too much accidental or intentional but you cannot operate in a vacuum. One death, accidental or intentional, from a car, a knife, electricity, a faulty crib, a blunt object is too much. I lost a cousin to a gunshot (homicide) and still believe that it is every American's right to own a gun.
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12735
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| Posted: 16 July 2010 at 12:45pm | IP Logged | 4
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"Al's proposition of shooting all gun-toters didn't strike me as funny or appropriate and I felt it was a moronic statement."
Google "A Modest Proposal."
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Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 18177
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| Posted: 16 July 2010 at 12:46pm | IP Logged | 5
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How many before I can drop the f-bomb? ------------ 117. Read your bylaws, man!
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Andy Williams
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 99
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| Posted: 16 July 2010 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | 6
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YES!! I was wondering what my 117th post would be!! Thanks, Kevin!
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12735
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| Posted: 16 July 2010 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | 7
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Of course, if you want to call me a moron because of a post I made a satrical comment in, perhaps in the future you should reference that, instead of responding to a specific statistic posted by someone other than me.
It might help folks such as Bill realize that you weren't just taking a cheap pot shot at me simply because I outspokenly disagree with your point of view.
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Andy Williams
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 99
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| Posted: 16 July 2010 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | 8
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Point taken.
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Brad Krawchuk
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 5814
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| Posted: 16 July 2010 at 12:54pm | IP Logged | 9
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According to the Texas Department of Health Statistics, in 2007 (the last year that they have available) there were a total of 160,166 deaths.
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So that includes heart attacks, cancer, strokes, vehicular deaths, plane crashes, choking, sudden infant death syndrome, old age... literally ALL DEATH in the state. That right there is a great way of making gun deaths look miniscule by comparison. Also, a false way. On the other hand...
Of the 2,470 homicides 1,411 or 57.13% were firearm relatedOf the 1,508 suicides 1,020 or 67.64% were firearm related This right here is where the focus should be. 2431 people would still be alive without guns. In fact, more would be alive without guns, because 68 people were killed with them accidentally. As in, no one wanted them dead they just died because a gun was used. You basically say here that 60% of all murders could be prevented if there were no guns. Right here. Now let's say half of those murders - randomly - would have happened successfully anyway. A knife, a baseball bat, whatever, and the victim wasn't able to defend themselves against that either. You'd still be looking at eliminating close to 30% of all murders by banning guns. Now, show me the statistic on there where it says guns prevented a crime by being used by a citizen in self defense. If that number doesn't add up to 300, then it's not worth it.
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Brad Krawchuk
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 5814
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| Posted: 16 July 2010 at 12:59pm | IP Logged | 10
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Oops! I was looking at the suicides when I came up with 300 for 30%! Also, the wrong number! Typing too fast.
What I meant was ...
30% of 2470, or 741 homicides would be prevented without guns. So if the number of lives saved isn't significantly larger than that - large enough that it's so much better to have guns to protect us than to not have guns - then I fail to see the benefit of ownership for defense at all.
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Andy Williams
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 99
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| Posted: 16 July 2010 at 1:06pm | IP Logged | 11
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Wait a minute - maybe I really am a moron, because I missed the implication here that it's okay for someone to die when they're 'engaged in illegal activity.' And then you wonder why someone is questioning you on devaluing human life? Wow.
*****
I'm going to catch hell for this BUT...let me simplify my take on a life lost when undertaking an illegal activity.
When were kids my sister and I were told that if we put our hands on the glass of my Grandmother's old-timey space heater we'd get burned and end up at the hospital in an extreme amount of pain. My sister decided to test that theory and ended up at the hospital in an extreme amount of pain. I felt bad for her...felt bad that she was hurt and was in pain. I did not, however, feel sorry for her...she knew that she'd get burned...she'd been told and could feel the heat coming off of the thing but touched it anyway.
If someone is killed while engaging in illegal activity I feel bad...for their family, for their friends and for the waste of a life. I do not, however, feel sorry for them. If you know that what you are doing has the potential of costing you your life and do it anyway then you're just stupid and when the worst outcome is realized you have no one to blame but yourself. If you're stupid enough to engage in drug-dealing (as an example) and think that everything's going to turn up roses every time then you either need to read the paper or watch TV...
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12735
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| Posted: 16 July 2010 at 1:11pm | IP Logged | 12
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So, is a human life worth less if it's taken during the commission of an illegal activity or not?
All you've said here is that you don't feel sorry for them. Neither do I, but I value their life the same.
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Topic Closed)
