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Topic: OT: Texas mayor shoots daughter, then herself... (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Brad Krawchuk
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Joined: 19 June 2006
Location: Canada
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Posted: 16 July 2010 at 11:36am | IP Logged | 1  

Are the laws against murder impossible to enforce?  It seems to me that most people who commit murder are caught and convicted.  But, compared with gun owners, there are a miniscule number of murderers in the US --  there were 13,000+ murders in 2009, which doesn't take into account repeat offenders -- compared with an estimated 80 million people who own more than 250 million guns.  It's relatively reasonable to assume that we have the resources to hunt and arrest 13,000 murderers a year ... but if the number of illegal gun-owners totaled in the millions, would there be enough manpower to enforce that law?

----

So you're saying that all the good, law-abiding, well meaning people who own guns and who wants us to believe they are responsible and trustworthy...

Are not. 

They would be willing to break the law, and do something illegal, just like any common thug or crack dealer or thief or murderer. They aren't good people at all, is what you're saying. So your argument is, since they aren't good, trustworthy, and law-abiding citizens anyway, we might as well let them keep their 250 million guns

Wow. That's the single most retarded argument for keeping guns I've ever heard. If we ban guns, only bad guys will have guns - because everyone who owns a gun is already bad and willing to break the law to keep their guns and to use them to defend their "right" to keep them. 

Personally, that makes me want to take their guns away even MORE. 
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Andy Williams
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Posted: 16 July 2010 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | 2  

But, compared with gun owners, there are a miniscule number of murderers in the US --  there were 13,000+ murders in 2009, which doesn't take into account repeat offenders -- compared with an estimated 80 million people who own more than 250 million guns.

*****
According to the Texas Department of Health Statistics, in 2007 (the last year that they have available) there were a total of 160,166 deaths.  

Of those; 9,495 or 5.93% were accidental, 2,470 or 1.54% were homicides and 1,508 or 0.94% were suicides.   

Of the 9,495 accidental deaths 68 or 0.72% were firearm related (0.4% of total deaths).

Of the 2,470 homicides 1,411 or 57.13% were firearm related (0.88% of total deaths).  Couldn't find a good stat but I'm guessing there were more than 1,411 gun owners here in Texas and I'd bet that the 1,411 guns used were an extremely small percentage of the total owned legally or illegally.

Of the 1,508 suicides 1,020 or 67.64% were firearm related (0.64% of total deaths).

In Texas in 2007, 71,111 children were substantiated as abused or neglected (10.7 per 1,000 children).  46,806 were neglected, 9,817 were physically abused and 5,205 were sexually abused.  228 died as a result of abuse or neglect.  

In Texas in 2007, there were 8,439 cases of rape reported.

In Texas in 2007, there were 73,426 aggravated assaults and 38,769 robberies.

Call me a gun lover or a gun nut but, based on the above, I'm much more worried about the people walking the streets than I am about gun that people have stored at home legally.  I have no problem with any American citizen having a gun in their home, legally.  Hell...after looking all of that up I may go get one this afternoon.  

Al, you're a moron.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 16 July 2010 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | 3  

Just so the gun-toters can keep clearly in mind what they are fighting for, approximately 150 (national average 84 per day) Americans have been killed by guns since this thread was started.
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Andy Williams
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Posted: 16 July 2010 at 12:15pm | IP Logged | 4  

Just so the gun-toters can keep clearly in mind what they are fighting for, approximately 150 (national average 84 per day) Americans have been killed by guns since this thread was started.

*****
How many of the guns were owned by the gun-toters as opposed to those obtained illegally?  How many of the 84 that have been killed since this thread started were engaged in legal activity vs. those engaged in illegal activity?  

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Jason Mark Hickok
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Posted: 16 July 2010 at 12:20pm | IP Logged | 5  

The only problem I have with using percentages for serious crime (murder, rape, etc.) is that it devalues the worth of a human life.
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William McCormick
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Posted: 16 July 2010 at 12:21pm | IP Logged | 6  

Al, you're a moron.

***************

Wow! 64 posts in 6 years and that's what you end it with?

Your statistics may be completely accurate, but even 1 accidental death or homicide from a gun is too much.
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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 16 July 2010 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | 7  

Just so the gun-toters can keep clearly in mind what they are fighting for, approximately 150 (national average 84 per day) Americans have been killed by guns since this thread was started.

*****

How many of the guns were owned by the gun-toters as opposed to those obtained illegally? How many of the 84 that have been killed since this thread started were engaged in legal activity vs. those engaged in illegal activity?

•••

Okay, let's get very specific: LINK

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Al Cook
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Posted: 16 July 2010 at 12:25pm | IP Logged | 8  

"Hell...after looking all of that up I may go get one this afternoon. "

A huge part of the problem is that you probably could.
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Andy Williams
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Posted: 16 July 2010 at 12:27pm | IP Logged | 9  

If I'd just typed in "A bunch of people were killed by other means and there are a lot of crimes against humanity that are committed without guns" I'd have been asked to prove it...so I used numbers and percentages.  I don't see how that devalues a life.
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Al Cook
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Posted: 16 July 2010 at 12:28pm | IP Logged | 10  

"How many of the guns were owned by the gun-toters as opposed to those obtained illegally? How many of the 84 that have been killed since this thread started were engaged in legal activity vs. those engaged in illegal activity?"

What the fuck difference does it make?  Is a human life worth more if someone takes it illegally???
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William McCormick
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Posted: 16 July 2010 at 12:30pm | IP Logged | 11  

I don't see how that devalues a life.

****************

Because you use those percentages to say "See it's not that many people killed with guns either accidentally or otherwise, so guns are ok." , when just one is too many.
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Al Cook
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Posted: 16 July 2010 at 12:31pm | IP Logged | 12  

"How many of the guns were owned by the gun-toters as opposed to those obtained illegally? How many of the 84 that have been killed since this thread started were engaged in legal activity vs. those engaged in illegal activity?"

Wait a minute - maybe I really am a moron, because I missed the implication here that it's okay for someone to die when they're 'engaged in illegal activity.'  And then you wonder why someone is questioning you on devaluing human life?  Wow.
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