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Wrong again. Homosexuality has to be RECOGNIZED because our fucked up society does not ACCEPT that it exists as a NATURAL STATE. Thus, Gay children are often confused when their homosexual feelings first stir. Society has not allowed for them to simply embrace their natural state.

Has the actual "Gay gene" been isolated? No. Does it exist? Of course. The weight of evidence points to it, in the same way the weight of evidence points to the Earth orbiting the Sun, something else that has not been "proven".

Wrong again. Homosexuality has to be RECOGNIZED because our fucked up society does not ACCEPT that it exists as a NATURAL STATE. Thus, Gay children are often confused when their homosexual feelings first stir. Society has not allowed for them to simply embrace their natural state.

Has the actual "Gay gene" been isolated? No. Does it exist? Of course. The weight of evidence points to it, in the same way the weight of evidence points to the Earth orbiting the Sun, something else that has not been "proven".

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So you are saying that an "orientation gene" exists based on  what...faith? That's out of character for you JB.

Lets stick to proven facts and science...until an orientation gene is discovered, then this conversation is quite moot.  However, if that day does come upon us, I wonder how some parents will react if they are not happy with the orientation of their offspring...

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A lot of genetic studies are done with twin studies, comparing monozygotic twins (identical) with dizygotic twins (fraternal), and looking at twins raised apart. The idea is that if a trait is influenced by genetics, MZ twins, who have identical genes, would have a higher concordance for a trait than DZ twins, who have about 50% of their genes in common. If MZ and DZ twins have similar concordance rates, then the trait may be influenced by a biological factor, such as the uterine environment. If a trait is due to environmental factors, such as parenting and upbringing, then you would expect to see little difference among MZ twins, DZ twins, and regular siblings.

With studies looking at homosexuality, the rates of concordance are indeed higher for MZ twins than DZ twins. It's not 100%, so there are other factors at play. Studies looking at twins raised apart (adopted by different families) show a high rate of concordance, so the difference is not likely due to upbringing or family environment.

The studies right now are looking at epigenetics. The idea that there are genes that influence homosexuality which are turned on or off by environmental biological factors, such as different levels of hormones that the fetuses receive in the womb.

Edited by Michael Roberts on 19 July 2010 at 2:17pm

Homosexuality has to be RECOGNIZED because our fucked up society does not ACCEPT that it exists as a NATURAL STATE.

Homosexuality is shown to exist naturally in over 300 animal species.  That's not new.

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Homosexuality is shown to exist naturally in over 300 animal species. That's not new.

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New, no. Accepted? Not so much.

And that's where the problem lies. When you live in a country where people can say with perfectly straight faces that they don't "believe" in Evolution, but DO believe in angels, minor details like scientific truth don't get in the way of opinion too much!

Damn, Byrne, I hate when you give me pause like that.

I've just finished ten years teaching at a private school in Maryland -- primary school, no less -- and was completely out there.  We had several kids of gay parents -- some of whom (the parents) attended my wedding two years ago.

When trying to get my husband on my health insurance, the school informed me that they didn't recognize my marriage -- it being "out of state" from DC (where I live) -- and so were not approving my husband's health insurance.  This became a rather ugly battle, rendered moot almost a month later when Maryland Supreme Court voted to recognize out of state gay marriages -- bless you for your humanity, Maryland...  But by then, the damage had been done.

Take a second with that, all you married heterosexuals.  Imagine if you crossed a state line and your marriage wasn't "recognized."  Sure, you can give me snarky one-liners about what a blessing it would be (in a "Take my wife please" kind of way), but what if while in that other state, your wife was hurt and you had to go to the hospital...  you know this scene, right?

it hurts.  It hurts that I can't live my life my way without you guys judging whether or not I'd be a fit parent or voting on whether I can marry the man I love -- or whether your state will recognize it.  There's a big "F*ck you" in there.

But here's the point: gays become parents because they want to be.  They don't become parents because someone forgot the birth-control.  There are no accidental gay parents.  If there are people who want to be parents and kids who badly need parents, then they should be together.  Period.  No one's orientation, parent or child, matters.

So marriages still aren't under the "full faith and credit clause"?

Funny how this only applies to interracial marriages (in the past) and gay marriages (in the present) and not quickie straight marriages performed in Las Vegas. The absence of a wait period between 1 and 6 days that in many jurisdictions is required should be sufficient grounds to invalidate these marriages, shouldn't it?

And if people just want to follow the law ...  Clearly full faith and credit should then also be denied Las Vegas marriages.

Unless of of course it's just a vicarious argument and the're only interested in being sticklers about the law if it means they can refuse rights to gay people.