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Rick Whiting
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Joined: 22 April 2004
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Posted: 10 June 2010 at 8:34pm | IP Logged | 1  

Funny you should use the word "bastardized" Greg. The new villain group in the just released Young Allies #1 is called the "Bastards of Evil". I assume the writer chose this name because all of the members are all illegitimate children of super villains. Which makes sense, but doesn't justify giving a super villain team what many people would consider to be a vulgar name.
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Bill Cox
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Posted: 10 June 2010 at 8:41pm | IP Logged | 2  

Interesting thoughts...I would think that the ATOMIC KNIGHTS was one of the most mature of the DC sci-fi series of the early 60's.

Masterfully written by John Broome (the original JB!) and lushly illustraded by Murphy Anderson...It took a concept that put the fear of God in every man, woman, and child during that time -- nuclear war -- and not only made each chapter an exciting story, but sent a message that there would still be hope left in the world, even after Doomsday.

As a side note, when my geeky middle school buddies and I werent playing AD&D, we were playing GAMMA WORLD ... and ripping off old Atomic Knights plots to use in our games!

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Petter Myhr Ness
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Posted: 11 June 2010 at 12:43am | IP Logged | 3  

Whatever happened to Geoff Johns?
--

Beats me. But he's started doing every character HIS way instead of doing the characters the way they're supposed to. Superman being the prime example. Flash another.

It's a digression from the thread theme, perhaps, but I remember reading that Denny O'Neill felt he wasn't a good fit for Superman and asked to be relieved from writing him. But as reader you would never know that. Because he did a professional job writing him.
A lot of the writers mentioned above would just try to change the character. And they would get away with it.
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Carmen Bernardo
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Posted: 11 June 2010 at 7:03am | IP Logged | 4  

On the subject of the Wasp/Yellowjacket porn scene:

   I remember that scene from the old Marvel Team-Up story arc.  It was so innocent, in part because you really only got so far before they had to stop in mid-kiss to go fight the villain, but we were left with the imagination.  Nobody gave away too many details, so that flimsy green gown never really gave anything away.  Just perfect for the audience of the day...

   Now, you have to be shown the superhero nude, humping away on a random chick (and not necessarily the woman he was married to).  Comics have been replaced by scripts for R- or NC-17 rated movies.

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Greg Woronchak
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Posted: 11 June 2010 at 7:14am | IP Logged | 5  

you have to be shown the superhero nude

It's always a question of choice; the writer and artist (although considering the over-detailed scripts produced today, I suppose the writer is the bigger culprit) decide on how 'far' a scene can/should go. At the same time, editorial and the 'suits' are responsible (I'm guessing) for the content in today's books.

I much prefer subtlety and leaving things to the imagination (one of the strengths of good comics is audience participation in the overall experience), and isn't it silly to assume what the audience wants to read/see?



Edited by Greg Woronchak on 11 June 2010 at 7:15am
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Matthew McCallum
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Posted: 11 June 2010 at 7:31am | IP Logged | 6  

Theatre of the mind can be such a powerful production house.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 11 June 2010 at 7:54am | IP Logged | 7  

I keep thinking about the saying, "Let boys be boys." It's almost like the generation that's out there right now is really embarrassed to be called "comicbook writers" and wants their profession to be portrayed as anything but. That attitude in the current creative and editorial regimes is part of what keeps me away from comicbook titles these days.

••

I don't think there's any "almost" to it. Paul Kupperberg told me, a while back, of a conversation he'd had at a New York con. He was talking with a Big Name Pro (who I wish I could name, but this is hearsay, after all), who moaned about hating superheroes, but being "trapped by the money". Literally his phrase, according to PK.

It's quite amazing. There was a time when I was quite erroneously pilloried for "being in it just for the money" -- nothing could be further from the truth -- yet some of these whiney prima donnas that infest the industry today can talk this way and be folk heroes!

Love of the craft, simply FOR the craft, sometimes seems to have disappeared almost entirely.

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Kevin Brown
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Posted: 11 June 2010 at 8:09am | IP Logged | 8  

Quite a difference between that and the pornography of Geoff Johns' story, of course, but great of you to remember it! I really have to dig out some of those old comics.
 
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That story, coupled with the "Red Zone" story, were heavy with editorial interference from what I recall being said.  They were nowhere near the stories he had written.  Red Zone was supposed to be 2 issues with a third issue to tie things up while leading to another story.  It was stretched to 6 because "it made for a better trade".  And the love scene was supposed to be just that between Hank and Janet, instead it was changed to reflect what we got.  It was because of those 2 instances that Johns decided to sign the DC exclusive.
 
Some of his DC work has been a bit over the top, especially in terms of characters dying and the way they're killed, but nothing like that sex scene in Avengers.  If you notice, he hasn't done anything close to that at DC.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 11 June 2010 at 8:13am | IP Logged | 9  

That story, coupled with the "Red Zone" story, were heavy with editorial interference from what I recall being said. They were nowhere near the stories he had written.

••

And you know what / do when I get "heavy editorial interference"?

I take my name off the job.

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Jeremiah Avery
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Posted: 11 June 2010 at 8:19am | IP Logged | 10  

With a lot of the superheroes being anything but heroic nowadays, I'm finding my enthusiasm for them waning significantly - something I thought would never happen.  I try to now seek out comics that reflect the sort of genres that I enjoy in literature. 

It's rather unsettling when kids have to be steered clear of Batman or Spider-Man since they have content that may be inappropriate (as someone who works at my comic store told me once).

Before, interest would wane but the content could still be approachable and appreciated years later.  Now, I look at some comics and I am reluctant to pick them up since they seem to be catering to a sort of "fan" that I would just as soon not be labeled as.

Maybe I'm getting too old?



Edited by Jeremiah Avery on 11 June 2010 at 8:20am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 11 June 2010 at 8:26am | IP Logged | 11  

It's rather unsettling when kids have to be steered clear of Batman or Spider-Man since they have content that may be inappropriate (as someone who works at my comic store told me once).

••

And this is not new, alas. More than twenty years ago, in the wake of the first Tim Burton Batman movie, a retailer I knew expressed his concern that parents were bringing their kids into his store, looking for Batman comics, and he did not feel he had any recent material that was appropriate to sell them.

This prompted me to pitch BATMAN & ROBIN, an "entry level" book that would be right for kids who were the age I was when I first "met" the characters. That was when I was told Batman was considered one of DC's "adult" characters. That was when I pointed out that an average adult, riding home on the bus or train, would rather be seen reading the latest issue of WHIPS & TODDLERS than BATMAN.

Sometime those damn trees make it so hard to see the forest!

===

I look at some comics and I am reluctant to pick them up since they seem to be catering to a sort of "fan" that I would just as soon not be labeled as.

Maybe I'm getting too old?

••

Sad thing is, if you are looking for comics that will deliver the same kinds of pleasures you experienced when you were younger, you are most definitely NOT "too old". The ones who are too old are the ones who expect the comics they read as kids to have kept pace with their own "maturity". (Or, more correctly, lack thereof.)

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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 11 June 2010 at 9:52am | IP Logged | 12  

   Now, you have to be shown the superhero nude, humping away on a random chick (and not necessarily the woman he was married to). Comics have been replaced by scripts for R- or NC-17 rated movies.

_________________________________________

Which is pretty much what happened in an issue of Secret Six that came out a couple of months ago.

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