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Al Cook Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004 Posts: 12736
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Posted: 19 May 2010 at 8:47am | IP Logged | 1
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For the record, I disagree with the flag-teacher's response, and understand the reaction to it.
And Brandon? You think you're adding to the debate by suggesting that the far left is aggressive and ugly? You're out of your gourd.
You'd also be dead wrong on your bet, at least if you were making it on me.
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Al Cook Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004 Posts: 12736
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Posted: 19 May 2010 at 8:48am | IP Logged | 2
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Also, Brandon, since Ebert at no point in his solution suggested "the idea of that wearing an American flag in America is something to be despised," you did nothing to address my question.
Was Ebert's response fair? Or was it aggressive and ugly? Or at least, if you don't think it was fair, what was wrong with it?
Try to address what he actually suggested this time, if you can.
Edited by Al Cook on 19 May 2010 at 8:50am
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Sean Mayer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 November 2006 Location: United States Posts: 105
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Posted: 19 May 2010 at 8:51am | IP Logged | 3
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The funniest part of the whole May 5 debacle is the fact that the only place that holiday is celebrated is in the US! They don't celebrate it in Mexico. I grew up in San Jose, CA, very multicultural school, and I was always led to believe that it was Mexican Independence Day. No, merely a day where they beat the French (and they celebrate it? who hasn't beat the French?) Then the French took them over anyway and didn't leave until the US interceded. Cinco de Mayo is a Budweiser holiday and most of the people celebrating it have absolutely no idea what it really is. It was a regional holiday for the Mexican State where that took place and moved into the american southwest. The simplest solution of course would be for it to go away.
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Jeremiah Avery Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 December 2008 Location: United States Posts: 2431
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Posted: 19 May 2010 at 8:52am | IP Logged | 4
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There are some on the fringe of the left that can be hostile as well, depending on what cause they are devoted to (such as not being green enough or eating meat, etc.). Though I just tune them out like I do with those that tell me I'm going to burn in Hell.
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Mike O'Brien Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10934
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Posted: 19 May 2010 at 9:01am | IP Logged | 5
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Isn't a high school exactly where kids should be learning about this kind of thing? About what the flag means? What it stands for? What it can be used for?This smells a wee bit like "freedom of expression -- except this time." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I whole-heartedly agree, but the kids already clearly knew how to use the flag to provoke - and by doing so they learned the ol' "Yelling fire in a crowded movie theatre" lesson. I also note that students don't have freedom of expression at school. But having said that - I totally agree with you - in the best case scenario, had this not been pre-planned to shop to talk radio - the school could have turned it into a lesson about how the flag can provoke and how it can be respected, and what various cultural traditions mean, etc. Let's be clear here - there were plenty American Flags in school that May 5th - no one is upset about the flag in general, it's just some kids who were shopping for a specific reaction, which they got, and then were able to turn into some press. The whole story stinks on ice, but what are you going to do? This goes back to my original point about being dismayed with human nature.
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Al Cook Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004 Posts: 12736
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Posted: 19 May 2010 at 9:16am | IP Logged | 6
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"the school could have turned it into a lesson about how the flag can provoke and how it can be respected, and what various cultural traditions mean, etc."
This is exactly why I disagree with what the teacher did. I understand why they did what they did, but they failed as a teacher there to take advantage of an excellent learning opportunity.
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 35941
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Posted: 19 May 2010 at 9:25am | IP Logged | 7
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Whatever side of the debate you're on re: the school incident on May 5, what I hope no one condones is the absolutely absurd way in which certain people responded to Ebert's criticism. Instead of making it a point of discussion, certain segments of the right immediately started doing what? Making fun of Ebert's cancer and in one particularly ugly remark wished that he would die already. Seriously. That kind of BS is not only totally uncalled for, it immediately reduces your opinion to that of dirt.
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Victor Rodgers Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004 Posts: 3508
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Posted: 19 May 2010 at 9:55am | IP Logged | 8
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"Kidswho wear American Flag T-shirts on 5 May should have to share alunchroom table with those who wear a hammer and sickle on 4 July," hetweeted.
****
So the American flag is to Mexicans what the Hammer and sickle is to Americans? Seems weird they would be so determined to live here.
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 35941
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Posted: 19 May 2010 at 10:01am | IP Logged | 9
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Victor Rodgers wrote:
So the American flag is to Mexicans what the Hammer and sickle is to Americans? |
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No. Not what that means at all. Ebert is saying that Cinco de Mayo is a Mexican holiday and that wearing the American flag at school that day showed disrespect. His meaning is that those same kids wearing the American flag on May 5 should sit at the same table with kids who wear the Russian flag on July 4, a decidedly American holiday.
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Victor Rodgers Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004 Posts: 3508
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Posted: 19 May 2010 at 10:09am | IP Logged | 10
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But its in an American high school. Would you get offended if somebody was wearing the Hammer and Sickle on July 4th in Russia?
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Albert Matthews Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 August 2006 Posts: 2204
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Posted: 19 May 2010 at 10:51am | IP Logged | 11
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Isn't a high school exactly where kids should be learning about this kind of thing? About what the flag means? What it stands for? What it can be used for? This smells a wee bit like "freedom of expression -- except this time."
I'm probably the biggest advocate for provocative humor on this board. Howard Stern, "South Park," :Family Guy," etc. There should be no sacred cows and we should not feel shy about mocking anyone and everyone in order to make satiric points or expose hypocrisy. Nevertheless, as a high school teacher, I also feel that absolute freedom of speech is simply not always appropriate within the confines of a public school campus. If it's going to hurt a student's feelings or interfere with the process of learning or lead to an unsafe environment, then we need to put the kibosh on it. They can express themselves freely out in the real world. (And believe me, I encourage them to do so.) But it would be utterly irresponsible of us not to set certain limits in the classroom.
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Jodi Moisan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008 Location: United States Posts: 6832
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Posted: 19 May 2010 at 11:51am | IP Logged | 12
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Well said Albert.
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