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Victor Rodgers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004
Posts: 3508
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| Posted: 26 May 2010 at 12:01am | IP Logged | 1
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"I never owned a slave! Why should I have to treat blacks nice?" Verygood! Very good, and predictable question. Thank you. The answer isthat you are still benefitting, like it or not, from the fruits ofslavery's labor. Because the white race is still in a position of powerand the playing field is still not level. I don't care how much youtalk about getting along and how many checks you write to the NAACP andhow often you tune in the Cosby show, the problem isn't solved by yourhopes and prayers. ***** I don't need a reason to be nice to anyone. But my ancestors were
A: Catching Malaria in swamps because it was too dangerous to send a slave in for such dangerous work.
or B: Were getting killed and driven off hand.
I agree with you mostly about white people trying to act like racisim was this thing that ended with the civil war and was a minor problem in the 60s. But I do reject the concept that I benefit in anyway.
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10934
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| Posted: 26 May 2010 at 12:17am | IP Logged | 2
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Wait a second - are you Native American?
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Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 18024
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| Posted: 26 May 2010 at 12:19am | IP Logged | 3
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Even if you don't buy that today you benefit, it's really hard to ignore that blacks today continue to suffer for it. It was only a few generations ago that a free black man would still be adrift in his new country, possibly unsure of where his family was or even what his name was. Imagine falling in love with someone and not knowing if it's your sister. Or your daughter.
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10934
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| Posted: 26 May 2010 at 12:23am | IP Logged | 4
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Kind of a rude and blunt question - I was originally going to type an apology to Victor in that, yes, Victor, you've noted that you've got hardships, but I was then going to go on another rant about the "collective" white vs the "individual" white etc and so on, but then it struck me, about what you typed, that it was possible that I was assuming too much in lumping you in with "whites".Interesting!
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Victor Rodgers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004
Posts: 3508
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| Posted: 26 May 2010 at 12:59am | IP Logged | 5
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Mike im unsure of the exact percentage. I just know I have great grandparents on both sides that were Native American. In this area its impossible to not have some in you. I just know its a good sized percentage and my Father did not like talking about it.
What I meant was my Ancestors were either poor white people at the bottom rung of society or Native Americans getting the shaft.
I also agree that black people still suffer from the effects of racism. But I think their is a distinction between benefiting and another side suffering. I think that things like this put a wedge between poor white and oir black people who should see each other as kindred spirits instead of enemies, Not too sound like a hippie but i think that just how "The Man" wants it.
Edited by Victor Rodgers on 26 May 2010 at 1:04am
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Donald Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 February 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 3601
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| Posted: 26 May 2010 at 6:35am | IP Logged | 6
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Victor and Mike,
Excellent points both...
I am a white guy...I can easily see how this has helped me in some situations, living in TX, there is definitely a good 'ol boy network in play. I have never gone out of my way to screw a minority, quite the opposite.
But, I can't pretend that I haven't been judged(favorably) by the colour of my skin.
True also, that growing up poor and white, my parents were the exceptions to the rule. We were taught to treat everyone with respect, and equality, but I know that my parents were raised in a time of "off handed"(not hate based, but rather ignorance, if that makes sense.) racism, and teaching their children differently was a very calculated act.
The majority of poor whites I knew were brought up to at least mistrust, if not outright hate minorities in general, and blacks in particular...I have always felt that there was a certain class of individual that benifitted from this mutual animosity, and he was neither Black ,or Poor...but if we keep the poor fighting amongst themselves, they'll be to busy to notice the real enemy.
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William McCormick
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 February 2006
Posts: 3297
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| Posted: 26 May 2010 at 8:19am | IP Logged | 7
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What turned this into a situation was a black kid immediately jumping to the conclusion that these were racist white people in need of a good beating. *************** Live down in Georgia as a black person and then tell me what conclusion you would jump to. You seem to be going out of your way to defend the indefensible. A black kid sees a bunch of people sitting or walking around in Klan robes and he's supposed to think they were there to.....what....give him a puppy?
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Greg Cordier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 579
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| Posted: 26 May 2010 at 8:25am | IP Logged | 8
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The mantra used to be "march to the beat of your own drummer" or some such. Now we seem to be able to march to that drummer only if "certain people" like the drum beat. The funny thing is, those "certain people" are the same one who came up with "march the the beat of your own drummer" in the first place.
Over time, round pegs became more tolerant of the square pegs who did not fit neatly into the round holes society was built around. Those square pegs eventually gained their own square holes that allowed them to be part of society as who they really were instead of being forced into a mold that was not right for them. Now it seems that the square pegs are upset at the round pegs because, for the round pegs, a square hole is not the best option. The square pegs who used to scream for tolerance are now intolerant of round pegs wanting to be round pegs.
What the KKK did to blacks was wrong. Read that statement again so you don't go off and start calling me a racist ... or a homophobe.... or whatever negative label you want to try to pin on me. I believe the US is truly based on being a society where people are allowed to be free to live as what they are and believe what they want to believe (as long as they do not harm others). That means what the KKK did to blacks was wrong. Physical violence against gays is wrong. And, as repugnant as it may be to many of you based on your statements in this thread, physical violence against racists is wrong.
People should be equally able to wave a rainbow flag, wear a black panther shirt, a Che Guevara shirt, a Nazi Swastika, and a KKK robe (sans hood) without fear of violent reprisal from those who do not share their opinion. Tolerance not only means people tolerating you and your crazy, but it must also, and maybe more importantly, include YOU tolerating things YOU personally find offensive. Charity begins at home, and so does tolerance.
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Donald Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 February 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 3601
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| Posted: 26 May 2010 at 8:58am | IP Logged | 9
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Charity begins at home, and so does tolerance.
Nicely put...However, we are not talking about people congregating in a public park or walking down a city street or their own yard...
We are talking about a public school...I do believe that Schools should be able to provide a safe haven from all forms of hate speech...And no this instance was not hate speech per say, but poorly timed and ill advised costuming. A misunderstanding.
Square pegs, Round Holes arguments are somewhat fitting for high school caste system but not for racial and sexual issues...
It implies a certain amount of choice, which does exist in social behaviors such as Sporty vs. Goth vs. Mathlete, etc and does not exist in race and sexual preference or sex.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133317
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| Posted: 26 May 2010 at 9:22am | IP Logged | 10
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We are talking about a public school...I do believe that Schools should be able to provide a safe haven from all forms of hate speech...•• One man's freedom of expression is another man's hate speech. I find most the the Christian Bible to be quite hateful, for example, preaching as it does all manner of intolerance, hatred, and even passive endorsement of slavery. How far would I get demanding the banning of all Christian objects, like little gold crosses on chairs around people's necks, from schools and other public buildings?
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Donald Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 February 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 3601
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| Posted: 26 May 2010 at 9:52am | IP Logged | 11
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One man's freedom of expression is another man's hate speech. I find most the the Christian Bible to be quite hateful, for example, preaching as it does all manner of intolerance, hatred, and even passive endorsement of slavery. How far would I get demanding the banning of all Christian objects, like little gold crosses on chairs around people's necks, from schools and other public buildings?
Well, we are doing what we can to create and encourage a secular school system...(Texas, sadly is trying to create an all Christian all the time publicly funded system) but I don't think that going after little gold crosses is the same as removing signs that say "Jesus hates fags" from the public schools...or even from forcing kids to participate in led prayers.
I am all for freedom of expression, I wish that there had been a "Flying Spaghetti Monster" around to proudly display when I was in high school. I had to make do with donating a few copies of American Atheist Magazine to the school library every month.
Edited by Donald Miller on 26 May 2010 at 10:43am
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12736
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| Posted: 26 May 2010 at 10:16am | IP Logged | 12
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"Blacks."
Nice.
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Topic Closed)
