Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 29 Next >>
Topic: Fighting for Ignorance (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar
Official JB Historian

Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10934
Posted: 20 May 2010 at 12:24am | IP Logged | 1  

I don't know, Jodi - it's hard to fight the logic of "they think this" and "they do that" - hell, the republicans seem to know what I'm thinking even better than I do!

And it's confusing, since what they SAY I'm thinking and doing, I'm never actually thinking or doing. I must be doing something wrong.

Maybe I can learn a little of that feverish vitriol from them fellers.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6832
Posted: 20 May 2010 at 12:46am | IP Logged | 2  

  Mike it's funny I am reminded of a scene from A Guide For the Married Man (not that great a movie) when Joey Bishop is caught red-handed by his wife in bed with another woman. After she walks in and sees the two, Bishop and his mistress calmly get out of bed, put on their clothes and straighten up the room. As his wife gets more hysterical, Bishop keeps responding to her outrage by saying “What bed? What girl?” In the end the woman thinks she didn't see what really happened.

I couldn't find the american version but you'll get the jest of it.

The far right have seemed to take a page from this playbook. LOL

Back to Top profile | search | www
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133317
Posted: 20 May 2010 at 3:54am | IP Logged | 3  

…A Guide For the Married Man (not that great a movie)…

••

It's been decades since I have seen it, and it probably hasn't aged well, but when it was first released GUIDE was quite brilliant.

Back to Top profile | search
 
William McCormick
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 February 2006
Posts: 3297
Posted: 20 May 2010 at 5:10am | IP Logged | 4  

Would it have been asking too much for those offended Hispanic kids to have had that same respect?

********************

You seem to be missing an important point about the flag shirt situation. Those kids who wore the American flag shirts did it for the express purpose of pissing off the Hispanic students.

If that wasn't the reason, then why did they pick that day to do it? They could have shown a little respect for the Hispanic population by not wearing them. Instead they chose to do it and then act like they're some kind of goddamn patriot just sticking up for Old Glory.

It was childish and ridiculous and the fact that the parents of those kids are defending them makes it even worse. Instead of using this to teach them about respect for other people and cultures, they act like they are the victims.

Sure they have the right to wear whatever they want. And other people have the right to get pissed off and call them on it. They deserved whatever punishment they received.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6832
Posted: 20 May 2010 at 6:07am | IP Logged | 5  

JB it is like the movie Barefoot in the Park, I showed some girls that are a lot younger than I am, both the movie Barefoot in the Park and Guide to a Married Man during a couple of our weekly "girls movie night".  Growing up I really loved both of these movies. But when they watched them, they laughed at them and not in a good way. For the younger college age girls, they just didn't hold up as well and I admit, they were not timeless .

I was so sad that kids that enjoyed American Pie had no love for some of the movies I enjoyed.


Edited by Jodi Moisan on 20 May 2010 at 6:09am
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12736
Posted: 20 May 2010 at 7:09am | IP Logged | 6  

What most of the idiots on the right - and not just the far right, unless that's where Brandon would describe himself as from - are not getting here is that this was never about respect for the flag.  It was about respect for others.
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133317
Posted: 20 May 2010 at 7:34am | IP Logged | 7  

You seem to be missing an important point about the flag shirt situation. Those kids who wore the American flag shirts did it for the express purpose of pissing off the Hispanic students.

••

And as Uber-Right George Will has pointed out, there is absolutely nothing in the Constitution that guarantees the Right Not to be Offended.

I personally do not think freedom of expression/speech should be considered an ABSOLUTE. I think it should be wielded very carefully, even surgically, on a case-by-case basis. (It makes me intensely uncomfortable, for instance, that Rap lyrics endorsing rape and other violence against women should be considered protected under the First Amendment.)

That's not how we roll, however. The First Amendment IS interpreted as an ABSOLUTE, which means, yes, people have the "right" to deliberately offend others.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12736
Posted: 20 May 2010 at 7:48am | IP Logged | 8  

Indeed people do have that right, and indeed they carry it out.

But as you say, should they?

This could have been a great opportunity for teaching, and instead the teacher - within rights, mind you! - punished instead of educated.

These kids chose to be deliberately provocative.  They chose to be dicks, plain and simple, and got busted for it.

I daresay they knew they would, too, and engineered the whole thing - or were encouraged by a parent or elder at the outset - to be this lovely little talking point.

No harm there.  It's good to talk about things.

Is it good to be a deliberate asshole whose intent is to offend?  That's a tougher one.  Especially in this environment where Palin/Beck/Limbaugh/Tea Partiers are taking it to such horrifying and stupefying extremes.  And people are falling for their shit hook line and sinker.

I had an alcoholic brother who drank himself to destruction and an early death, and we were helpless to do anything about it.

That's what it feels like now to be a foreigner watching the news from the states.  I worry about my brother nation.  It seems to have an illness there appears to be no cure for, and it's getting worse.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Avatar
Robotmod

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35941
Posted: 20 May 2010 at 8:59am | IP Logged | 9  

 Brandon Frye wrote:
 Matt Reed wrote:
That's what gets me, Al.  I'm sure someone will pipe up and say that although they are on the right, these people don't speak for them...althewhile saying that the left, as a whole, is ugly and aggressive.

Sigh

Before you get your hairshirt in a twist, look back to see what I wrote.  Did I single you out?  Are you the "someone" who is piping up? 

I would be shocked if you think that there aren't people who demonize others but then parse words and cut bait when the same accusations are leveled against them.  If you're one of those people, then I was talking about you.  If you're not, chill out.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Jeff Gillmer
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 30 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1920
Posted: 20 May 2010 at 9:00am | IP Logged | 10  

 People can go out of their way to do offensive things, but it's in the eyes of the viewers to choose to be offended or not.  We don't know if other students were offended, because the principal overreacted, and said as much.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Avatar
Robotmod

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35941
Posted: 20 May 2010 at 9:07am | IP Logged | 11  

 Al Cook wrote:
That's what it feels like now to be a foreigner watching the news from the states.  I worry about my brother nation.  It seems to have an illness there appears to be no cure for, and it's getting worse.
 
While I appreciate the sentiment, I think we're working through our issues as best as we are able.  Like we always have.  We don't have any more of an "illness" than Canada does with her myriad of troubles.  Every nation faces tough times, big questions, and falters on more than one occasion.  That includes the United States.  We are no more "sick" and "incurable" than Canada, England, France, Germany, Italy, et. al.
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133317
Posted: 20 May 2010 at 9:07am | IP Logged | 12  

Is it good to be a deliberate asshole whose intent is to offend? That's a tougher one. Especially in this environment where Palin/Beck/Limbaugh/Tea Partiers are taking it to such horrifying and stupefying extremes. And people are falling for their shit hook line and sinker.

••

Or, from the perspective of those people, Palin/Beck/Limbaugh/Tea Partiers present a Revealed Truth, and it is those who are offended by what they say who are the idiots.

That, of course, is an instance in which the Freedom of Expression MUST be jealously guarded, or pretty soon it will not only be unlawful to offend, it will be unlawful to DISAGREE.

Hey, worked for Hitler and Stalin!

Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 29 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login