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Topic: Will comics ever get over Watchmen? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Albert Matthews
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Posted: 04 March 2010 at 8:29am | IP Logged | 1  

Just what one would expect from an "extremely literate allegory".

Well, hey, just because I recognize the allegorial nature of a piece doesn't mean I can't also appreciate some hot, lesbian love scenes.

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The fact that you are a schoolteacher, Albert, scares me more than I can describe.

I completely understand. And if it's any comfort, you can't be nearly as scared of me as I am. But I should also point out that I'm quite adept at drawing the line right before it nudges into inappropriate territory for teens. However, being able to lauch "preemptive strikes" and mock the things they're going to snicker at anyway before they do so means I can pretty quickly "clear the decks" and get on with the business of learning. So, for example, by making a couple of mild inbreeding cracks prior to launching into Tennyson I'm able to diffuse the entire "ewwwwwwwww!" reaction to poems about banging your cousin and get the students to focus instead on the beauty of the works.

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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 04 March 2010 at 10:46am | IP Logged | 2  

Using somebody else's characters -- in other words, more in the same vein as WATCHMEN. Moore has become his own cliche.

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How dare you not like and criticize the great god Alan Moore. Everything Moore writes is gold. To say such negative things about his work is a cardinal sin punishable by death.

And yes, that was sarcasm. There are a number of pros and fans out there who actually believe that anyone who doesn't like Watchmen or like Moore's as a writer, that you are either crazy or an idiot. It is because of this mentality/belief bu many fans and pros, I believe (and I could be wrong), why Barbara Gordon has not regained the ability to walk again and become Batgirl again. DC seems to be afraid of pissing off those pros and fans (not to mention, Moore himself) who loved The Killing Joke.

Edited by Rick Whiting on 04 March 2010 at 10:51am

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Don Zomberg
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Posted: 04 March 2010 at 10:49am | IP Logged | 3  

...he loves superheroes.

But you're okay with his contempt for female characters, right?

 

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Frank Robert
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Posted: 04 March 2010 at 11:24am | IP Logged | 4  


 QUOTE:
I have never read Watchman and considering all of the junk that has been inspired by it I have no desire too.

You're not missing much, in my opinion.  As with Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns, I just don't understand the appeal of it.  Sure, it may have been "new" and "different," but that doesn't mean it's good, in my opinion.

Many, many, many other people love Watchmen and DKR, however.  In fact, I don't know more than one or two other people who feel the same about those books as me, and so it goes.

_Frank Robert


Edited by Frank Robert on 04 March 2010 at 10:13pm
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Arc Carlton
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Posted: 04 March 2010 at 2:02pm | IP Logged | 5  

But you're okay with his contempt for female characters, right?

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I wasn't aware there was such a thing in his works...

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Bobby Beem
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Posted: 04 March 2010 at 3:02pm | IP Logged | 6  

DC seems to be afraid of pissing off those pros and fans (not to mention, Moore himself) who loved The Killing Joke.
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DC being afraid of pissing off Alan Moore is a pretty hilarious concept.

Incidentally, though I know you weren't necessarily lumping him in with the pros and fans who love it, Moore has stated repeatedly that he hates the Killing Joke. Cites it as an example of imitating Watchmen, actually.

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Chris Geary
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Posted: 04 March 2010 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | 7  

DC seems to be afraid of pissing off those pros and fans (not to mention, Moore himself) who loved The Killing Joke.

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DC and Moore do not care about one another in any way shape or form.

Due to DC's actions regarding the constant reprinting of Watchmen, Alan Moore has completely washed his hands of the whole thing,  He does not receive any money from any of the reprints.  Any money he should have got from that goes to either Dave Gibbons, or, more likely, DC themselves.  Moore did not receive any money from the Watchmen film either.  Some may have noticed that his name was not mentioned in the credits.

That was also the case with V for Vendetta.  Again, any money regarding that went to David Lloyd.  (I don't know if Alan Moore gets anything from the reprints of that, but I think he doesn't)  

When Wildstorm was sold to DC, he was going to stop producing work for them.  But somehow Jim Lee talked him into staying, making sure that no one from DC would have any say in the running of the books that he was involved with.  The situation regarding reprints of those books I don't know about.


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Joe Hollon
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Posted: 04 March 2010 at 3:53pm | IP Logged | 8  

Seems weird to me that Moore "hates" THE KILLING JOKE.  I don't think I had heard that before. 

What's the root of the rift between Moore and DC?

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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 04 March 2010 at 4:24pm | IP Logged | 9  

What's the root of the rift between Moore and DC?

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My understanding is that it was several things, but the big point of contention was over the reversion rights for V for Vendetta and Watchmen. Moore's stance is that DC cheated him out of the rights to those books by never letting them go out of print. DC's stance is that reversion clauses are common in comic book contracts, and there is nothing improper with regard to how they are handling the books.
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 04 March 2010 at 5:07pm | IP Logged | 10  

I'm not so sure he does have a contempt for female characters - I would cite Captain Britain in this regard.

However, what I find amazing is this whole thing of not wanting to step on his stories (And I do wonder how much of this is corporate and how much of this is fan / pro awe) when he himself is quite happy to step on anything previously published (Even to turn children's characters in to sex maniacs (Allegory or not, that is what he did!)).

PLEASE DC, produce a sequel to Watchmen, just so we can see the 'How dare they' from people. I would be quite happy to point every single person who complained to the Great Ormand Street Hospital.

To JB - Very true with your response to my previous post - I wasn't looking at things in those terms (I was being far too narrow), but yes, he is still stuck in the rut of using other people's characters for his own gain (Although I admit I liked League of Extrodinary Gentlemen (Well 2 anyway)).

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James Malone
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Posted: 04 March 2010 at 6:22pm | IP Logged | 11  

Moore has fallen into a category that many writers may envy.

When he writes something good, people applaud him for being good.

When he writes something bad, people say it was intentionally bad. (And those of us calling it bad just don't understand).

Frank Miller falls into this category too. Legions of fans will say that All Star Batman and Robin wasn't crap... it was Miller's purposefully crappy comic created as a commentary on crappy comics...



Edited by James Malone on 04 March 2010 at 6:23pm
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Bobby Beem
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Posted: 04 March 2010 at 7:09pm | IP Logged | 12  

Seems weird to me that Moore "hates" THE KILLING JOKE.  I don't think I had heard that before. 

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Weird? I think a lot of artists look back at old work with regret. Anyway, he said it was an example of "doing something horrible and nasty just because you couldn't think of anything interesting." Basically the same reasons everyone here doesn't like it (I think). Said he only took it on because he wanted to work with Bolland and Bolland seemed interested in doing a Batman story.

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