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Ed Deans
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 July 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 763
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| Posted: 12 February 2010 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | 1
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Responding to a private email on the forum was uncouth.I spoke carefully of ideologies, not political parties. I see many confuse the two as you do, Jodi. It is politically naive to see the Republican party as an ideological monolith. It is often characterized as a coalition of many factions including fiscal conservatives, social conservatives, business interests, religious conservatives, neoconservatives and others. George W. Bush campaigned as a fiscal conservative but was not. Bill Clinton, George W Bush and Barack Obama all began their terms with unified party gov't. but things aren't necessarily as simple as party affiliation on either side of the aisle. If you had responded privately to my email with your points, I'd have been amendable to dialog. Having chosen the public route as you did, I see it would be wasted effort.
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Craig Bogart
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 June 2008
Posts: 407
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| Posted: 12 February 2010 at 12:51pm | IP Logged | 2
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Matthew- you asked for it...
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Mike Murray
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 530
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| Posted: 12 February 2010 at 1:02pm | IP Logged | 3
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"It can't be, perhaps, because a bunch of people gotonboard the hope and change express believing things might be differentthis time, only to find that it was just more politics as usual. Itcan't be that they were disappointed to learn they elected one more biggovernment dedicated to friends and cronies. It can't be that thepromise people making under $250,000 a year wouldn't see one more dimeadded to their taxes proved to be little more than empty words. Itcan't be that trillions of dollars went out the door at startling speed."
^ This is one of the more remarkable things I've ever read on the internet. The Tea Partiers are disgruntled Obama voters... I'm sorry, but that's simply incredible.
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Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6832
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| Posted: 12 February 2010 at 1:09pm | IP Logged | 4
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Ed I don't like talking politics in private with someone I don't know. I have never talked to you on a personal private level and won't start on this topic. I don't really know you from Adam and as I have learned from trolls on the internet, I refuse to take any conversation with strangers private.
Michael I missed you too.
The thing with people wanting lower taxes, I completely get that, my local town board, is extremely inept with money management and they feel instead of spending money wisely, they just raise taxes. I go to almost every town board meeting and walk out feeling helpless on the way they spend our money. But the Tea Party has a group in their ranks that are racists and unless they acknowledge that, run them out of the group and try working with both parties to solve this countries issues, they will be looked on as kooks by those not involved in the group.
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Matthew McCallum
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 2711
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| Posted: 12 February 2010 at 1:16pm | IP Logged | 5
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Jodi, Gosh, I guess we should all be grateful that Marvel showed such good judgment and selected the far less offensive Tea Party rally signs that they did. And I guess Cap was right in his reasoning of sending the Falcon undercover "...under the thinking that a black government official will most certainly spark their anger." Thanks for clearing that up for us! So a couple of chowderheads discredit a broad-based political movement or a whole community? If so, then we should just conclude based on similar evidence that all anti-abortionists are doctor killers, all protesters of the WTO are vandals, all anti-war protesters are unpatriotic, all Arabs are terrorists, all white male Christians are bigots, all bankers are thieves, and so forth? You know, Jodi, a few years ago, what you've done used to be called "cherry-picking your intelligence"...
Edited by Matthew McCallum on 12 February 2010 at 1:26pm
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Joseph Gauthier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 March 2009
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: 12 February 2010 at 1:20pm | IP Logged | 6
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William, tax day protests have been held in both Washington and local communities for as long as I can remember; the symbolism of the day being something that appeals very much to the public protester. Of course those past movements have been limited strictly to April 15th, as well as limited in scope, but, to be fair, several significant things have occurred between 15 Apr 08 and now:
*The 2008 Republican presidential primary process nominated as candidate for president, a co-sponsor of the Campaign Finance Reform Act of 2002, and a proponent of amnesty for illegal aliens.
*The 2008 Republican candidate for president ran a blatantly incompetent campaign.
*National average for gasoline price rose to $4.03 per gallon in July of 08.
*The 2008 Democrat candidate for president declared his intentions to create a system of punitive taxation as a means of bankrupting certain industries.
*The 2008 Democrat candidate for president declared that energy costs would skyrocket in accordance with his energy policy.
*The 2008 Democrat candidate for president declared a desire to spread the wealth around.
*Both the American and world economy suffered a massive down-turn, causing families to loose retirement and college savings for which they've worked their entire lives.
*The economic down-turn has driven the American unemployment rate above ten percent, and under-employment past seventeen percent.
*The Federal government spent 700 billion taxpayer dollars to bail out troubled financial institutions.
*The incoming White House Chief of Staff, in reference to the economic down-turn, declares his intention to never let a crisis go to waste.
*The Federal government has used 700 billion dollars worth of taxpayer funded shares to leverage government control over private institutions.
*Four moths after spending $700 billion on troubled financial institutions, Congress and the President spent another 787 billion dollars of taxpayer money on wasteful social spending that most Americans believe will do further damage to, rather than improve the economy.
*Americans recall the White House Chief of Staff's intentions to never let a crisis go to waste, in context with the $787 billion of social spending.
*Shortly thereafter, failing auto companies, GM and Chrysler receive 130 billion taxpayer dollars to ward off bankruptcy.
*Chrysler goes bankrupt.
*GM goes bankrupt and emerges from bankruptcy hearings with the Federal government taking a majority stake in ownership of the formerly private corporation.
*House democrats pass a heath care reform bill that would, by federal dictate, force private citizens to involuntarily purchase a service, with private funds, under penalty of law.
*Facing failing support for health care reform, the Senate Democrat caucus bribes Senators from Florida, Nebraska, Louisiana, and Connecticut in order to purchase their votes, over their conscience and the will of their constituents.
*Facing failing support for health care reform, the Senate Democrat caucus avoids organized labor opposition by exempting labor unions from the proposed cadillac health care plan tax.
As you can see, William, none of these stimulating factors existed prior to 15 Apr 08, explaining in large part why the tax payer protests are so much larger today. But there are a couple more intangibles, that exist as contributing factors as well, starting with the emergence of Sarah Palin. At a time when Americans feel increasingly isolated from their elected representatives the appeal of Ms. Palin, in a general sense, divorced from political ideology, is enormous. Over the years, many people have cynically forgotten the power of the individual in the American political system, but in Ms. Palin, they see a woman just like themselves, and they are reminded that the common man can indeed influence change. That is the heart of her appeal: she has empowered many disillusioned voters to believe in themselves (rather than in her).
Two other factors are also currently contributing to the growth potential of the movement, and they are related. The power of the success/opposition dichotomy is also enormous. The more intense and offensive the negative reaction is to the movement, the more alienated the people to whom the movement appeals feel from their elected representatives and from media outlets. But on the other side of the dichotomy, the more success the movement meets with, the more empowered the common man feels in his desire to affect grassroots change.
But ultimately, William, you're asking the wrong question. Divorce your self from ideology, and the real question becomes: how is this, in any way, a bad thing?
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Matthew McCallum
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 2711
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| Posted: 12 February 2010 at 1:20pm | IP Logged | 7
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Craig, Wow. That's.... wow. I have to admire Cap's dialogue: "Sir, we have no reason to fight!" You're only a lizard-President in your Fruit of the Looms, after all...
Edited by Matthew McCallum on 12 February 2010 at 1:23pm
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Joseph Gauthier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 March 2009
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: 12 February 2010 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | 8
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Jodi! I'm very happy to see you back and posting! Your disappearance left me wondering, and somewhat worried; but I'm glad to see you're back and seemingly doing well.
You crazy liberal!
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Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6832
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| Posted: 12 February 2010 at 1:24pm | IP Logged | 9
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You know, Jodi, a few years ago, what you've done used to be called "cherry picking your intelligence"...
And your view now, would be called looking" through rose colored glasses".
Edited by Jodi Moisan on 12 February 2010 at 1:25pm
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Knut Robert Knutsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006
Posts: 7374
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| Posted: 12 February 2010 at 1:29pm | IP Logged | 10
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"Responding to a private email on the forum was uncouth." I disagree with you, sir. The conversation started on this board. Taking it off-board to private e-mails was "uncouth". Had the "conversation" started in a private e-mail exchange, you would have a point. There is a level of familiarity and a tolerance for extremely "loud" opinions on this board when discussing politics. Which I think is good. But while I have had private e-mail exchanges with other members on this board on unrelated issues such as information requests, it would never occur to me to take a political debate off-board to an e-mail, no matter how cordial or moderate in tone the arguments were. Not to impugn your motives or character in any way, but I know of people who, after discussing issues on message board, have been inundated with unsolicited private e-mails with "counterarguments". And in some cases these "counterarguments" have been bullying, offensive and even frightening. And the offender is safe from reactions by the moderators (such as banning) and plays the innocent when called on it. As a matter of principle, therefore, I think it rude and invasive to take a board argument to private e-mails when it is unsolicited or not agreed to by both parties. And in such cases, I think it only correct and proper to bring responses to such arguments back to the board where they originated. We have a lot of freedom here, guys, let's respect some boundaries. Sometimes, when debates get too heated, I like to step away from the board for a few days just to cool off. And I think I'm not the only one. If I were then to start receiving private e-mails from my opponent continuing the argument, I'd go China-Syndrome on the guy. Am I totally off base with this?
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 30970
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| Posted: 12 February 2010 at 1:31pm | IP Logged | 11
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Am I totally off base with this? *********** Nope.
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Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6832
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| Posted: 12 February 2010 at 1:32pm | IP Logged | 12
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Joseph , thanks I missed talking to you. I am fine, just really busy. my son moved to NY city and we have been there 4 times in the last five months, plus I have been mostly posting on facebook.
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Topic Closed)
