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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133458
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| Posted: 19 January 2010 at 6:41am | IP Logged | 1
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The whole question of characters aging is really, really, really silly, if we think about it for a moment. 2011 will mark -- brace yourselves! -- the FIFTIETH ANNIVERSARY of FF1. Do any of the characters look or act 50 years older than they did when they took that rocket ride? Spider-Man's fiftieth comes along just a few years later. Same question.So, if it has NOT been fifty years for the characters -- and clearly it has not -- what purpose is served by coming up with elaborate sliding scales to explain how much time "has" passed? The correct answer is "a while". And not a very long while. Being FICTIONAL, they are not burdened with such mundane matters as the passage of time. Anyone who doesn't GET that should stay as far away from superhero comics as they possibly can.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133458
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| Posted: 19 January 2010 at 6:43am | IP Logged | 2
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…the professional and financial success of rock-star writers like Bendis and Millar…•• Which are "successes" only in the context of the diminished expectations that have become the industry standard.
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Greg Woronchak
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 19 January 2010 at 7:39am | IP Logged | 3
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Unfortunately, even mild 'success' results in carte blanche (it seems to me) in what a given 'hot' creator can do to a character or book. I miss the 'old days', when it was the character and/or concept that made a book sell, and not the creative team.
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Marcio Ferreira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2518
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| Posted: 19 January 2010 at 7:49am | IP Logged | 4
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Truth is, I am sure that Stan and Jack never imagined that those characters would be "alive" so many years after it's creation.
The simple solution would be a complete turn around in the way characters are "managed" by the publish business.
Maybe the editors could even profit from that with some kind of "end of the world" event with the cancelation of all titles and a reboot with a completely different direction, that could make characters look more like the cartoons (again Bruce Timm's Batman is a very good inspiration).
That could include a complete re-design of characters, and the stablishment of a visual identity, that could cross from comics to video games to toys.
Ageless characters (same concept used by Disney) would be the rule.
The EIC would have strong limitations.
The "super stars" could create their own characters and try to survive from them.
A little bit radical, but a necessary move to keep the super heroes in the business for another 50 years.
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Joel Tesch
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 2830
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| Posted: 19 January 2010 at 9:18am | IP Logged | 5
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And why would you have to redesign and turn them into cartoons to do this?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133458
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| Posted: 19 January 2010 at 9:50am | IP Logged | 6
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Truth is, I am sure that Stan and Jack never imagined that those characters would be "alive" so many years after it's creation.•• Of course they didn't. Marvel back then was a spectacularly unsuccessful company, barely clinging to life (with sales much, much higher than modern books achieve!). When they suddenly became The Little Company that Could, it was a surprise to everyone -- and Stan and the gang reacted by slamming on the "aging" brakes and making Marvel much more "conventional". Even the grey covers with brown logos disappeared!
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John Peter Britton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 May 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 9129
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| Posted: 19 January 2010 at 10:23am | IP Logged | 7
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These characters should be ageless and timeless!
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Marcio Ferreira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2518
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| Posted: 19 January 2010 at 10:25am | IP Logged | 8
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And why would you have to redesign and turn them into cartoons to do this?
+++
The easiest answer is: to break the ties with the past (give the impression of something "NEW") and to have all business units working with the same standardized visual identity (toy's, Video Games, Comics and licensing).
And whoever saw Bruce Timm's Batman, knows that the "cartoonic appearance" of his Batman, did not meant bad histories.
Besides, comic books are meant for kids until their 15, 16 years old, tops, not for grown ups. So, by making interesting and entertaining stories, Bruce Timm proved that it is possible to appeal to mature audiences and to kids at the same time.
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John Peter Britton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 May 2006
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 19 January 2010 at 10:29am | IP Logged | 9
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So comics are not for grown up people how do you work that one out?
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Joel Tesch
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 2830
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| Posted: 19 January 2010 at 10:50am | IP Logged | 10
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Besides, comic books are meant for kids until their 15, 16 years old, tops, not for grown ups. Yeah, and they seemed to be pretty successful without a "cartoon" style. You don't need that to make things uniform or commercial. Is JB's work (past and present) not commercial (or able to be consistent with licensing)? I get what you are saying re: the rest, I just don't see the need to go the cartoon route.
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2216
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| Posted: 19 January 2010 at 10:56am | IP Logged | 11
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Even as a little kid, I always new that the characters in the comics can't and shouldn't age. I knew that these stories were always meant to be happening in the present and that any past stories (no matter how many years ago in our real world time that may have been) either happened "months ago" or a "while ago". It's simple common sense and it always amazes me when fans and pros can't grasp or accept that simple concept.Nothing pissed me off more then when I heard that Bendis actually revealed in an issue of New Avengers that Peter Parker was 30 years old. Thankfully, Marvel has decided to ignore what Bendis wrote and have gone on record as saying that Peter is in his early to mid 20's.
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
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| Posted: 19 January 2010 at 11:00am | IP Logged | 12
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Which are "successes" only in the context of the diminished expectations that have become the industry standard. _______________________________________________ And as the most recent sales figures have shown, once Marvel stops using gimmicks to boost the sales of their books (variant covers and crossovers), the sales of their books take a huge dip.
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Topic Closed)
