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Regan Tyndall Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 November 2008 Location: Taiwan Posts: 293
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Posted: 18 January 2010 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | 1
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Hmm. I understand perfectly the majority opinion that characters should not age. But I disagree with certain characters. In the case of Spider-man (bearing in mind I haven't read a Spider-man comic since the end of the 80s), I think his aging was a large part of the success of the character. His growth in popularity in the late 60s drew partly from his journey into college, into living on his own, and into becoming financially independent, etc. -- which readers of that age-group could relate to (and younger readers could aspire to). But, of course, as some of you have implied or stated already, once you start aging characters intentionally (which Stan Lee did, with Spider-man), you create a continuity problem that puts a life-span on the character. No, we don't have to follow a formula and use a calculator to know the exact age of the character (certainly, the precise ages are irrelevant in specifics), but it does mean that a character like Spider-man reaches a point of being too old. The solution is to end fiction/adventure series at a certain point. For me Spider-man would be a more interesting / important character had the series ended in about 1973, after which, I think, it became just another popular comic franchise with occasional good artists/writers, but still, just another franchise. So, what I'm saying is -- I personally don't like the idea of perpetual, endless characters. And yes, I think it would have bettter to retire Spider-Man, The Fantastic Four. etc. decades ago. I also think this process would have helped the American comic book to be less of a dinosaur concept nowadays. (I don't mean to put Mr. Byrne out of a job, however -- he was certainly talented enough to be an industry star without these characters!)
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Greg Woronchak Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 1631
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Posted: 18 January 2010 at 12:09pm | IP Logged | 2
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It's also a lot easier for a writer to CALL ATTENTION TO HIMSELF Excellent point: the 'man behind the curtain' seems to be more important than the actual tale these days, it seems.
Edited by Greg Woronchak on 18 January 2010 at 12:09pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133613
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Posted: 18 January 2010 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | 3
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Excellent point: the 'man behind the curtain' seems to be more important than the actual tale these days, it seems.•• As I've put it more than a few times, it seems to have become all about the singer, rather than the song.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133613
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Posted: 18 January 2010 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | 4
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In the case of Spider-man (bearing in mind I haven't read a Spider-man comic since the end of the 80s), I think his aging was a large part of the success of the character. •• Spider-Man was created at a time when the average comicbook reader lasted for about 5 years, usually tapering off some time in his early teens. "When they discover girls," as we used to put it. While it is true that those of us who were there to pick up AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 1 off the rack at our local drugstore were also there to see Parker change from a nerdy highschooler to a handsome collegian, those who came after were less likely to see this, as the brakes were already being applied by the time Peter entered college. If you want to single out particular reasons for the success of the character, start with the sturm und drang Stan made such a trademark of Spider-Man's stories. This was soap opera of the highest (one might say most flagrant!) kind, and it seemed to be that which drew in, and held the readers.
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Don Zomberg Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 November 2005 Posts: 2355
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Posted: 18 January 2010 at 12:36pm | IP Logged | 5
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readers...could relate to. As noted above, Peter Parker went from the guy the average reader could relate to, to becoming the guy the average reader wanted to be--a good looking hunk with a motorcycle and two gorgeous gals on his arms.
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Marcio Ferreira Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2008 Location: Brazil Posts: 2518
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Posted: 18 January 2010 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | 6
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Dragon Ball characters age because the story has a finale. Ditto forseveral other mangas. Plus, there is one single author, so the readerknows that whatever he's reading, that's from the author's mind. Nonewcomers ready to mess with Toriyama's work. +++ Regardless, it was Toriyama's decision to age his character. He could have decided to make him like the Simpsons. My whole point was about the strategy of the publish house, EIC or Board of Directors. We are talking about corporations and their property, Spider Man or Super Man are not too different when compared to Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck. Or Dragon Ball for that matter. It's just a product and is always evaluated as a "cash generating unit". I would not be surprised if the Marvel Characters re boot happens in the next couple years. Disney does not age it's characters and it certainly will have a "plan" for the comic book business, if it survives...
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133613
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Posted: 18 January 2010 at 2:07pm | IP Logged | 7
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I would not be surprised if the Marvel Characters re boot happens in the next couple years.•• Marvel has already rebooted, once, with the ULTIMATEs. MAN OF STEEL and Earth2 both at the same once!
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Marcio Ferreira Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2008 Location: Brazil Posts: 2518
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Posted: 18 January 2010 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | 8
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Marvel has already rebooted, once, with the ULTIMATEs. MAN OF STEEL and Earth2 both at the same once! +++ I meant a reboot towards "ageless characters", like most Disney Characters (Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck). A good and successful example is the Batman of Bruce Timm (for me the definitive Batman). By all standards, I think that having full control of the character's visual identity (standard) is better to corporations. Again, maybe they find the publish business so insignificant that they might allow all fanboy madness while the bottom line is still blue and they are still providing hollywood material.
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Mike Norris Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4274
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Posted: 18 January 2010 at 3:45pm | IP Logged | 9
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I've been thinking, if Peter is 30ish, shouldn't Franklin Richards be a teenager? (please tell me he isn't a teenager)
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Sam Karns Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7624
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Posted: 18 January 2010 at 10:00pm | IP Logged | 10
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Age progression started with Stan when Peter graduated from High School to college. Those writers would say, "If the MAN did it, why can't they?" I think Marvel planted this image of themselves as being the company their characters live in the real world and should progress in them as well. They wanted to separate themselves from the other comic companies and be unique with readers.
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Rick Whiting Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004 Posts: 2220
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Posted: 18 January 2010 at 10:57pm | IP Logged | 11
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"As I've put it more than a few times, it seems to have become all about the singer, rather than the song." ________________________________________ Sad, but true. What's even worse, many of the singer's think that their S*** don't think. If they are not patting themselves on the back, they are acting like spoiled primadonas (sp). This is especially true of many comic book writers these days.
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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 12857
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Posted: 19 January 2010 at 1:00am | IP Logged | 12
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Unfortunately, the professional and financial success of rock-star writers like Bendis and Millar can only motivate others to write as if their voice were the most important element in comic books.
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