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Robert Cosgrove
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 1710
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| Posted: 12 January 2010 at 9:41pm | IP Logged | 1
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"The only thing Kirby's Spider-Man had in common with what was finally published was the name -- which Stan came up with. Kirby's version of the character was basically a recycling of the Fly, who was himself a recycling of the Silver Spider."
I basically agree with most of that sentence, with the notable exception of "which Stan came up with." Actually, I have no personal basis to disagree (or agree) with it either, but per Joe Simon's book, The Comic Book Makers, the original name of the Silver Spider was Spiderman. Simon created a logo for Spiderman, which Kirby later brought to Stan Lee. See p. 202: "As I learned years later, Jack brought in the Spiderman logo that I had loaned to him before we changed the name to The Silver Spider." If Simon's account is credited, Stan's contribution to the name was limited to "The Amazing" and the hyphen between "Spider" and "Man."
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4620
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| Posted: 12 January 2010 at 11:04pm | IP Logged | 2
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A few months ago some people here were defending the notion that Stan was the sole creator of Spider-Man, even given the likelihood that all he had was the name and vague concept of "spider powers" before Ditko entered the picture. So I'm wondering... if the Kirby heirs could somehow prove that Kirby did bring the name "Spider-Man" to Stan, how many people here would think he deserved co-creator credit for that (for the record, I wouldn't).
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Jeremiah Avery
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Joined: 27 December 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 2431
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| Posted: 13 January 2010 at 7:44am | IP Logged | 3
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Regarding Spider-Man, in the Jonathan Ross special "In Search of Steve Ditko", Stan said how he wrote a letter and gave it to Steve Ditko saying that it was the two of them that created the character. This was to try to smooth over some of the acrimony Ditko had over being (in his mind) marginalized over the creation of the character. Stan has, at least in some interviews I've seen, given Kirby credit for the Silver Surfer. It's a messy situation since some of this conjecture is based on alleged verbal agreements between people no longer alive. If either side can produce a written contract stating the transfer of ownership of the rights, then there would be more merit to this case.
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17698
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| Posted: 13 January 2010 at 9:43am | IP Logged | 4
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A few months ago some people here were defending the notion that Stan was the sole creator of Spider-Man, even given the likelihood that all he had was the name and vague concept of "spider powers" before Ditko entered the picture.
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I missed that part of the thread. I don't recall anyone saying Stan Lee deserved sole credit for Spider-Man's creation.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133274
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| Posted: 13 January 2010 at 10:12am | IP Logged | 5
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Stan has, at least in some interviews I've seen, given Kirby credit for the Silver Surfer. •• He did better than that. He gave Kirby full credit for creating the Surfer in SON OF ORIGINS, his second volume on the history of Marvel. Contrary to popular misconceptions, I have yet to find a single instance of Stan failing to give credit where credit was due. More often, others have mistakenly attributed work to Stan, and then the minibrains in the fan community have been quick to excoriate him for not having somehow magically prevented the mistake. ORIGINS OF MARVEL COMICS and SON OF ORIGINS should be mandatory reading for anyone who wants to understand the history of the company. Not only did Stan freely distribute credit to others, he told the tale largely before anyone else had, and at a time when his notoriously poor memory would not have so great an effect.
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Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 276
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| Posted: 13 January 2010 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | 6
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I pulled out my copy of Sons of Origins & here's the quote from Stan Lee...
"After we had discussed the plot for (are you ready for this?) "The Galactus Trilogy," Jack spent the next few weeks drawing the first 20-page installment. When he brought it to me so that I could add the dialogue and captions, I was surprised to find a brand-new character floating around the artwork-a silver-skinned, smooth-domed, sky-riding surfer atop a speedy flying surfboard. When I asked ol' Jackson who he was, Jack replied something to the effect that a supremely powerful gent like Galactus, a godlike giant who roamed the galaxies, would surely require the services of a herald who could serve him as an advance guard.
I liked the idea. More than that, I was wild about the new character. It didn't take long for us to christen him with the only logical appellation for a silver-skinned surfboarder-namely, The Silver Surfer."
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John Peter Britton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 May 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 9129
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| Posted: 13 January 2010 at 12:28pm | IP Logged | 7
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And the rest we know is history!
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4620
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| Posted: 13 January 2010 at 12:43pm | IP Logged | 8
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[quote =Wallace Sellars]I don't recall anyone saying Stan Lee deserved sole credit for Spider-Man's creation.[/quote]
Go back and check out the thread in question. On page one alone, Steve DeYoung, Mark Waldman, and James Malone all say that Stan should be considered the sole creator of Spider-Man. And others pop up as the thread continues, if I recall.
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 13 January 2010 at 12:45pm
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Pascal LISE
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 July 2006
Location: France
Posts: 1111
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| Posted: 13 January 2010 at 12:47pm | IP Logged | 9
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Stan did indeed give credits to artists… for their contribution.
But this doesn't mean that he acknowledges they created or co-created a character when a writer is involved in the creation process. In many interviews I read, especially some about Ditko and kirby, he seems to consider that a character can only be fully flesh out and thus created through the work of a writer.
In his mind, the writer IS the creator. He's even reluctant to credit an artist as co-creator and would rather use terms like "Co-produced by".
He chooses his words carefully and if there's one thing you can't deny the man it's his hability to play with words.
Somehow, I feel he honestly believes that, it's just the way he reasons and why there's so much misunderstanding between him and Ditko or Kirby.
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John Peter Britton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 May 2006
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 13 January 2010 at 1:18pm | IP Logged | 10
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I agree with you Pascal!
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Mark McKay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2258
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| Posted: 13 January 2010 at 1:40pm | IP Logged | 11
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Using Spider-man as an example, Stan Lee was the creator of Spider-man. It was from his head that the idea originated. He was the creator of that idea.Having said that, without Steve Ditko, we wouldn't have the character of Spider-man that we know today and that became so popular. He created a lot of the elements that made it a success. Still, without Steve Ditko, there likely still would have been a Spider-man, because of Stan Lee. Just not the one we know, and it may have flopped after it first appearance and been seen no more.
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John Peter Britton
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Joined: 17 May 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 9129
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| Posted: 13 January 2010 at 2:10pm | IP Logged | 12
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Who knows Mark maybe maybe not!
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Topic Closed)
