Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 14
Topic: Marvel sues Kirby heirs to keep copyrights (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Mike Norris
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4274
Posted: 15 January 2010 at 2:47pm | IP Logged | 1  

Out of curiosity, which one created Peter's personality and situation: Teenager with dead parents, high school loser, ect.

Similarly was it Lee or Kirby that came up with the FFs personnas? The Big Brain, the gruff tough guy, the young daredevil and uh a girl. Kirby had been working with those archtypes forever in works like the Newsboy Legion and Challengers of the Unknown.

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4620
Posted: 15 January 2010 at 3:38pm | IP Logged | 2  

Peter was a teenager with dead parents in the rejected Lee/Kirby pages, so it would have been Lee and/or Kirby who came up with that.  However, Uncle Ben was totally different (he was a disapproving General Ross type).  And Peter transformed into an adult when he became Spider-Man.

The high school loser piece wasn't added until Ditko came aboard, so that would be Lee or Ditko.

It's impossible to say for sure who contributed what to the finished story in Amazing Fantasy #15.  Generally the way they worked was Stan and the artist would discuss the plot, then Stan would type up a plot synopsis which the artist would draw, possibly making changes and adding things as he did so.  Since both men took part in plotting, we don't know who specifically contributed what.

In the case of FF #1 Stan's synopsis does survive, but even in that case we don't know what Kirby contributed, because he and Stan almost certainly discussed the plot and characters before Stan typed the synopsis (that was the way they almost always worked).  As you pointed out, the characters are pretty standard Kirby archetypes, and it's well-known that Kirby based Ben's personality on himself.   


Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 15 January 2010 at 3:40pm
Back to Top profile | search
 
Joel Tesch
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 2830
Posted: 15 January 2010 at 4:25pm | IP Logged | 3  

In the case of FF #1 Stan's synopsis does survive, but even in that case we don't know what Kirby contributed, because he and Stan almost certainly discussed the plot and characters before Stan typed the synopsis (that was the way they almost always worked).  As you pointed out, the characters are pretty standard Kirby archetypes, and it's well-known that Kirby based Ben's personality on himself.   

What's interesting in that first synopsis, wasn't  Ben's personality originally going to be much more sinister...almost like a "Dr. Smith" type villain from within. Granted it's been a while since I read it, so I might be misremembering.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 18016
Posted: 15 January 2010 at 4:40pm | IP Logged | 4  

That's how I recall the synopsis as well - Stan refers to him as a "heavy", a word that I just love.  And it lines up with the early issues.  Ben was a bit of a wild card at times.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Mike Norris
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4274
Posted: 15 January 2010 at 6:41pm | IP Logged | 5  

Sounds like Stan transfered some of his Ben ideas to Hulk.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133279
Posted: 16 January 2010 at 7:30am | IP Logged | 6  

The Thing, the Hulk and the Beast were all "tough guys" in their first few issues. Almost thugs. Of the three, the Thing and the Beast underwent the most rapid and dramatic transformations. The Hulk was incredibly inconsistent for his first six issues -- one of the factors that probably led to the series' cancelation.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Don Zomberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 23 November 2005
Posts: 2355
Posted: 16 January 2010 at 10:29am | IP Logged | 7  

The Silver Surfer's transformation is the one that rankles me the most--he went from Kirby's idea of a fallen angel, to Stan's version of a New Age Jesus. Yuck.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4879
Posted: 16 January 2010 at 12:52pm | IP Logged | 8  

Don - Such is the story when you do a work for hire - you don't have any control over the toys when someone else starts playing with them (unless you're Stan and you're also the editor).

 

Back to Top profile | search | www
 

Sorry, you can NOT post a reply.
This topic is closed.

<< Prev Page of 14
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login