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Brian Miller
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Posted: 20 January 2010 at 9:40am | IP Logged | 1  

Except for the shoulder pads and "backpack", the Red-and-Silver armor doesn't seem to me to be bulkier than the Red-and-Gold.
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John Peter Britton
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Posted: 20 January 2010 at 10:14am | IP Logged | 2  

I agree Brian!
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 20 January 2010 at 10:22am | IP Logged | 3  

The Silver Centurion had bulkier boots and gauntlets as well. That said, it was a lot more powerful/ had more features. eg integrated the stealth facility into the armour, 'Pulse bolts' as well as repulsors, was stronger, faster,etc.
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Robert Walsh
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Posted: 20 January 2010 at 10:40am | IP Logged | 4  

As I have said before, if you're dealing with an audience that changesevery few years, as used to be the case, Tony building his outer spacearmor, or his undersea armor, or hisarmor-Robin-wears-when-Batman-is-injured almost works. But if you'redealing with the modern (by which I mean the past 30 years or so)audience, that sticks around for decades, it makes no sense at all tosuddenly say the armor that has been seen comfortably flying thru spaceor cruising at crushing ocean depths needs to be "modified" or evenreplaced for those "special" assignments.A rose is a rose. Iron Man is Iron Man.

* * * * * *

Have to say I can't disagree more. If your catering to 30+ year fans you're in deep trouble. Especially with science fiction where the once futuristic can often look extremely quaint as our view of the future changes, because sometimes the technology we think is right around the corner ends up being far more complicated than we could imagine and we dial our expectations down.... where are our flying cars and jetpacks? Oh, right, those are completely impractical... nevermind.

Take the original Star Trek. It was created at a time in which computers were mysterious things that had flashing lights and gave read-outs that only trained technicians could read. So they come up with a sleeker version of then-modern computers.

By the time the movies started coming out, home computers were the norm and seeing bits of identifiable computer gear among the flashing lights gave it a bit of credibility in the eyes of the audience. The same thing was happening on Doctor Who where the console which had once been just random knobs and dials and levers were incorporating computer components.

More time goes by, those computer components start to look dated, so they start mining concepts that are still years from common usage. Touchscreens are suddenly everywhere.

And even though this creates weird Continuity problems, every one of those looks worked for its intended audience. And, let's face it, the technological continuity errors pale in comparison to the timeline errors that creep into any long-running TV show. How many times have we seen the final fate of Earth or humans on Doctor Who? Have they ever jibed with any other accounting? Are we supposed to believe that the Eugenics War that spawned Khan happened a couple of decades ago? It's not accounting, it's entertainment.

I think most long-term fans accept that inconsistencies will turn up, while in-coming kids tend to focus on present adventures, even the ones that look to the past for more adventures. And if they do start poking around in those 30 year old stories, I think the tech levels of the Iron Man armor would be the least of the adjustments they'd have to make to enjoy those stories, especially with comics love of the ret-con. Superman used to be able to fly through space and back in time... doesn't appear to be the case these days. Unless you happened to luck upon the issues that explain the change, that's probably going to be ten times more confusing than Iron Man's armor being a bit more advanced than it is now.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 20 January 2010 at 10:42am | IP Logged | 5  

The Silver Centurion had bulkier boots and gauntlets as well.

****************

Not really. The "classic" armor had those hollowed out cylinder things at the top of the boots and gloves and they stuck out farther than the ones on the Silver armor. ( Especially when Layton was inking it.) The silver armor's gloves/ boots simply extended to the wrist/ ankle.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 20 January 2010 at 11:01am | IP Logged | 6  

As I have said before, if you're dealing with an audience that changesevery few years, as used to be the case, Tony building his outer spacearmor, or his undersea armor, or hisarmor-Robin-wears-when-Batman-is-injured almost works. But if you'redealing with the modern (by which I mean the past 30 years or so)audience, that sticks around for decades, it makes no sense at all tosuddenly say the armor that has been seen comfortably flying thru spaceor cruising at crushing ocean depths needs to be "modified" or evenreplaced for those "special" assignments.A rose is a rose. Iron Man is Iron Man.

* * * * * *

Have to say I can't disagree more. If your catering to 30+ year fans you're in deep trouble. Especially with science fiction where the once futuristic can often look extremely quaint as our view of the future changes, because sometimes the technology we think is right around the corner ends up being far more complicated than we could imagine and we dial our expectations down.... where are our flying cars and jetpacks? Oh, right, those are completely impractical... nevermind.

Take the original Star Trek. It was created at a time in which computers were mysterious things that had flashing lights and gave read-outs that only trained technicians could read. So they come up with a sleeker version of then-modern computers.

••

First, try reading what I wrote, not what you want to think I wrote. I am not talking about "predictive" technology. Stan had Iron Man's armor powered by transistors, which was not even accurate technology for the time! But the idea behind the technology in comics is not to be predictive, but merely to be beyond what we have at the time. (When I joined the Industry, it was common to say the technology was at least fifteen to 20 years ahead of what we had. Not in a predictive sense, but in an isn't-that-cool sense.) Thus, even Iron Man's clunky gray armor was far ahead of anything that could actually be made in the 1960s.

The "specialized" suits reverse this, and do, indeed, attempt to be predictive. Read the OHOTMU entry for Iron Man and find it full to bursting with "real world" science. Cold fusion was in the headlines when the entry was written, so Stark's suit becomes powered by cold fusion.

This is pandering the the thirty-somethings, who cannot accept the "Because It Does" answer to how something works. These are the ones who want to know what kind of spider bit Peter Parker, or where the Thing's fourth finger disappeared to. And those are NOT the people we should be playing to, but the "specialized" suits do exactly that.

Elsewhere, apparently you were watching STAR TREK beamed in from some parallel universe, since the computer tech I saw on TOS was not only surprisingly predictive, it did not require trained technicians to work it. Only the ability to say "Computer on".

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Peter Martin
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Posted: 20 January 2010 at 11:47am | IP Logged | 7  

The "classic" armor had those hollowed out cylinder things at the top of the boots and gloves

Agreed.

and they stuck out farther than the ones on the Silver armor.

Maybe.

( Especially when Layton was inking it.)

I'd call this special pleading.

The silver armor's gloves/ boots simply extended to the wrist/ ankle.

...and I think they look bulkier that way.

I also think the head was generally portrayed as being wider than the classic armour.

Edited to add: I like the Silver Centurion armour. But it does look bulkier to me in several ways, and not just the backpack and the shoulder guards.



Edited by Peter Martin on 20 January 2010 at 11:49am
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Joel Tesch
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Posted: 20 January 2010 at 12:14pm | IP Logged | 8  

Except for the shoulder pads and "backpack", the Red-and-Silver armor doesn't seem to me to be bulkier than the Red-and-Gold.

Based on the computer graphic illustration above, yes...but based on the way the red-and-silver armor was actually drawn at the time (in West Coast Avengers and Iron-Man) it was definitely bulkier. In fact, the upper body and torso were definitely bigger (almost like Tony had put on 50 pounds of muscle) and thicker.

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Joel Tesch
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Posted: 20 January 2010 at 12:17pm | IP Logged | 9  

In fact, even the head and neck were thicker. Here's a good example:

I definitely prefer the sleeker yellow and gold (alhtough I REALLY liked how JB did the silver/red armor in that Hulk issue where Hulk fought Iron Man, Namor, Hercules and Wonder-Man).

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John Peter Britton
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Posted: 20 January 2010 at 12:33pm | IP Logged | 10  

I look at that drawing you put up Joel and i just don't think of Iron-Man!
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 20 January 2010 at 2:13pm | IP Logged | 11  

I look at that drawing you put up Joel and i just don't think of Iron-Man!
---
It makes me think of something one of Tony's competitors may have put together after stealing Stark technology...
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 20 January 2010 at 3:15pm | IP Logged | 12  

It still looks like Iron Man to me (a lot more than some of the later articulated red and gold armours, for example) and I had no problem enjoying the Silver Centurion stories at the time...... BUT (and it's a fairly big but)  it fairs poorly when you compare it to the classic red and gold version, because that version is simply better and more iconic.

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